After watching the MW2 posted above I disagree, seems to be a huge advantage. There is no way you could aim that quickly and precisely with a pad.
XIM3 round the corner (mouse and keyboard support)
- Thread starter Zensuji
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After watching the MW2 posted above I disagree, seems to be a huge advantage. There is no way you could aim that quickly and precisely with a pad.
Have you ever used one of these mice for console things? They're not very good
No i haven't however this guy is claiming that this new one is 'unnoticeable' so naturally i'm worried. Watch some of the videos, he does stuff that just isn't possible on a pad, or at least is very difficult but is the sort of stuff even i could do on a mouse+kb.
Moving from PC to console gaming last year was such a huge change for me, I couldnt even reloud and aim at the same time using a pad. But Now I have got used to it, I couldn't imagine sitting at a desk playing games now unless it's css or similar on the PC.
Not a fan of these XIM things tbh.
ags
Not a fan of these XIM things tbh.
ags
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Ah, well in that case ban every one with nice TVs, surround sound, steering wheels or arcade sticks then.
well said.
No, it was terribly said, as i stated in my post the comparison in advantage given by those things is minuscule compared to the advantage a mouse and keyboard has over a pad.
Miniscule, ever played something like CoD4 over SCART on an old CRT? You can't see anything!
I'd take a pad and HDTV over kb/mouse and CRT any day.
Yeah but the game devs made games to support HD tellies. They did not make them planning for some 'device' to come out and totally change how to play the game.
I'm a long-time user of this particular product and a mod at the forums (which I won't list here out of respect for other mods). I just wanted to clear up a few misconceptions.
1) The XIM doesn't allow you to do things you can't normally do with a controller. It doesn't aim for you. It doesn't allow you to run faster, turn faster, etc. It is still limited by whatever a controller is capable of doing within the confines of any particular game or engine.
2) I understand some people may consider this cheating, but many of us really argue that it isn't. For fighting games, arcade sticks > fighting gamepads > standard 360 pads. The price difference between a quality fighting stick and a standard 360 controller is $100+ in many cases. Fighting sticks allow you to pull off combos and moves in Street Fighter IV that just aren't possible with a standard controller. This is really no different. Not all Arcade Sticks are licensed... and some are even homemade from arcade cabinet parts.
I use to be a competitive PC gamer (Quake 2 and Quake 3). I also use to have a huge chip on my shoulder with regards to how well the M&KB performs over gamepad users in console FPS games. I now realize the gap in skill isn't nearly as great as many proclaim it to be. I've gone up against some VERY good controller users - some of the best the console community has to offer in various versions of Call of Duty. How did I fair? I held my own - which is what you would expect... about 50/50.
How is this possible? Console versions of games do all sorts of things that PC versions of games don't do to "prop up" the weaker input device (gamepads). Some of these things are: Lower fields of view, auto-aiming, sticky aiming, bullet magnetism, slightly enlarged hit boxes, etc.
The biggest reason this is possible however... is just skill level. These console players are the cream of the crop. They have been playing with thumbsticks for 5-7 years. This combined with aim assist allows them to be on EQUAL footing with gamers with a mouse and keyboard.
Now, before people go off and say it isn't fair... why isn't it? I've been playing games with a M&KB for 15 years or more. When the rest of you thumbstick users catch up with that experience, I'm sure the playing field will be even easier.
Look, the goal and spirit of XIM is not to give an unfair advantage. The goal is to take gaming experience and, quite frankly, a much superior input device, and translate it to a gaming platform and community. The PC is dying off. XBL offers many great things that PC platform does not (but it also lacks many cool features... but that is another topic). If we want large competitive communities without hackers, aimbots, etc... then XBL is one of our only choices. Why should we have to "step down" to an inferior controller?
Personally, I wish MS and Sony would just release a gamepad with a trackball for a right thumbstick or just properly support M&KB in games. Until then, this is our only option for enjoying the types of games we love. If it seems unfair to you... it should. We have been playing these types of games on the best input device for it... for a much longer time. If it doesn't seem unfair to you, it is probably because you are use to thumbsticks and are just as good or better than us... and kudos to you.
You wouldn't play Rock Band with a controller.
You wouldn't play Gran Tourismo with a controller.
You wouldn't play SFIV with a controller.
But why are many of you okay with playing Call of Duty with one? If anything, I'm surprised more of you aren't cheering that the best input device for the FPS genre is finally real.... and yes, it works fantastically (check the forums and the testimonies if you have any doubts). Why do many of you want aim assist and other game crutches to make an inferior aiming device palpable... let alone preferable?
1) The XIM doesn't allow you to do things you can't normally do with a controller. It doesn't aim for you. It doesn't allow you to run faster, turn faster, etc. It is still limited by whatever a controller is capable of doing within the confines of any particular game or engine.
2) I understand some people may consider this cheating, but many of us really argue that it isn't. For fighting games, arcade sticks > fighting gamepads > standard 360 pads. The price difference between a quality fighting stick and a standard 360 controller is $100+ in many cases. Fighting sticks allow you to pull off combos and moves in Street Fighter IV that just aren't possible with a standard controller. This is really no different. Not all Arcade Sticks are licensed... and some are even homemade from arcade cabinet parts.
I use to be a competitive PC gamer (Quake 2 and Quake 3). I also use to have a huge chip on my shoulder with regards to how well the M&KB performs over gamepad users in console FPS games. I now realize the gap in skill isn't nearly as great as many proclaim it to be. I've gone up against some VERY good controller users - some of the best the console community has to offer in various versions of Call of Duty. How did I fair? I held my own - which is what you would expect... about 50/50.
How is this possible? Console versions of games do all sorts of things that PC versions of games don't do to "prop up" the weaker input device (gamepads). Some of these things are: Lower fields of view, auto-aiming, sticky aiming, bullet magnetism, slightly enlarged hit boxes, etc.
The biggest reason this is possible however... is just skill level. These console players are the cream of the crop. They have been playing with thumbsticks for 5-7 years. This combined with aim assist allows them to be on EQUAL footing with gamers with a mouse and keyboard.
Now, before people go off and say it isn't fair... why isn't it? I've been playing games with a M&KB for 15 years or more. When the rest of you thumbstick users catch up with that experience, I'm sure the playing field will be even easier.
Look, the goal and spirit of XIM is not to give an unfair advantage. The goal is to take gaming experience and, quite frankly, a much superior input device, and translate it to a gaming platform and community. The PC is dying off. XBL offers many great things that PC platform does not (but it also lacks many cool features... but that is another topic). If we want large competitive communities without hackers, aimbots, etc... then XBL is one of our only choices. Why should we have to "step down" to an inferior controller?
Personally, I wish MS and Sony would just release a gamepad with a trackball for a right thumbstick or just properly support M&KB in games. Until then, this is our only option for enjoying the types of games we love. If it seems unfair to you... it should. We have been playing these types of games on the best input device for it... for a much longer time. If it doesn't seem unfair to you, it is probably because you are use to thumbsticks and are just as good or better than us... and kudos to you.
You wouldn't play Rock Band with a controller.
You wouldn't play Gran Tourismo with a controller.
You wouldn't play SFIV with a controller.
But why are many of you okay with playing Call of Duty with one? If anything, I'm surprised more of you aren't cheering that the best input device for the FPS genre is finally real.... and yes, it works fantastically (check the forums and the testimonies if you have any doubts). Why do many of you want aim assist and other game crutches to make an inferior aiming device palpable... let alone preferable?
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Lovely post, but how about you read the thread and you'll find quite a few reasons why people are against them.
The problem people have with it is that the games are designed with the controller in mind, so to compensate as you've already said they put in all sorts of aim assist, bigger hit boxes etc, pair this with the precision of a mouse and there you have your unfair advantage. I wouldn't have a problem with KB+Mouse support if all the aim assistance etc was disabled, but thats never going to happen so yeah it does get on my nerves when some ****** in MW2 comes charging around the corner with a rapid fire FAL, while firing 4 shots per second aimed vaguely in the direction of my head for an easy headshot thanks to the auto aim taking care of the rest.
And if you think using a mouse on a console gives you no unfair advantage I would really like some of what you're smoking.
And if you think using a mouse on a console gives you no unfair advantage I would really like some of what you're smoking.
Thats how I see it too. The pad is designed to be used on the Xbox or PS3. Modern Warfare 2 was designed to be played with the controllers on the consoles.
If Microsoft or Sony came along and said that they are adding official support for KB+Mouse on all games then I wouldn't mind as much because I would use them aswell. But they aren't going to therefore this device is cheating in my eyes and gives a huge advantage to the person using it.
If Microsoft or Sony came along and said that they are adding official support for KB+Mouse on all games then I wouldn't mind as much because I would use them aswell.
But they aren't going to therefore this device is cheating in my eyes and gives a huge advantage to the person using it.
Soldato
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I had my XIM2 since the day it came out! One of the best investment I put into.
I have a lot of friends on XBOX and play with them, been a PC player since the early days and using the device has helped me and M$ buy their games and consoles!
I have a lot of friends on XBOX and play with them, been a PC player since the early days and using the device has helped me and M$ buy their games and consoles!
It is only an advantage insofar as it allows you to aim more precisely than a controller.
This is the exact same advantage as:
Performing button presses more quickly with an arcade stick over the controller.
Driving and braking more precisely with a force-feedback steering wheel over the controller.
"Dancing" better on a huge dancepad compared to pressing buttons on a controller.
Playing guitar better on a "guitar" than a controller.
People use unlicensed steering wheels, arcade sticks, and dance pads all the time. And now they are using unlicensed M&KBs. It is not a violation of the TOS to do so and we can debate that if you like as well.
If you need aim assist to make a game playable, then something is wrong with your game and/or the input device. We all know controllers are inferior to M&KB... so why do people want crutches to make an inferior experience a little less inferior? For us M&KB users, aim assist actually hurts us (it doesn't help us... many of us are trying to get game publishers to have options to turn it off).
No matter where your stance is on the matter.... the fact is it isn't going anywhere. These are legal to use, not a violation of the TOS, and I even brought it up to Major Nelson while at PAX East. MS will never license these until their stance on the whole "living room vs computer room" marketing stuff is sorted out. Yes, you use them at your own risk (just as unlicensed memory cards were eventually blocked), but you can't be banned for using it (since it doesn't hack or modify anything).
If you wanted to play Super SFIV right now and wanted to compete... you'd have to get a good arcade stick. From now on, if you want to play Call of Duty or Halo and you want to compete, you'll need to get one of these.... just the same way that you'll need HD and 5.1 headphones. The only thing "unfair" about it is whether or not you can afford one.
This is the exact same advantage as:
Performing button presses more quickly with an arcade stick over the controller.
Driving and braking more precisely with a force-feedback steering wheel over the controller.
"Dancing" better on a huge dancepad compared to pressing buttons on a controller.
Playing guitar better on a "guitar" than a controller.
People use unlicensed steering wheels, arcade sticks, and dance pads all the time. And now they are using unlicensed M&KBs. It is not a violation of the TOS to do so and we can debate that if you like as well.
If you need aim assist to make a game playable, then something is wrong with your game and/or the input device. We all know controllers are inferior to M&KB... so why do people want crutches to make an inferior experience a little less inferior? For us M&KB users, aim assist actually hurts us (it doesn't help us... many of us are trying to get game publishers to have options to turn it off).
No matter where your stance is on the matter.... the fact is it isn't going anywhere. These are legal to use, not a violation of the TOS, and I even brought it up to Major Nelson while at PAX East. MS will never license these until their stance on the whole "living room vs computer room" marketing stuff is sorted out. Yes, you use them at your own risk (just as unlicensed memory cards were eventually blocked), but you can't be banned for using it (since it doesn't hack or modify anything).
If you wanted to play Super SFIV right now and wanted to compete... you'd have to get a good arcade stick. From now on, if you want to play Call of Duty or Halo and you want to compete, you'll need to get one of these.... just the same way that you'll need HD and 5.1 headphones. The only thing "unfair" about it is whether or not you can afford one.
Not to mention, but the makers and community supporting this device are currently in the process of allowing a paraplegic gamer to once again enjoy games. How? By giving him the freedom to use whatever controller he wants to... instead of the one that MS overcharges for and/or crams down your throat with no other option.
Microsoft's "approval process" isn't for the protection of the gamer... it is the gatekeeper for $$$ under the moniker of "consumer protection". Just as non support for M&KB on the 360 isn't about fair gameplay... it is about separating the demographic for 2 separate business divisions.
So if you are basing your verdict on cheating solely on whether or not MS approves the device... ask yourself if it has more to do with fair play or $$$. And whatever you answer, tell that to the 1000s of people who would now have the option to play games when they didn't before.
Microsoft's "approval process" isn't for the protection of the gamer... it is the gatekeeper for $$$ under the moniker of "consumer protection". Just as non support for M&KB on the 360 isn't about fair gameplay... it is about separating the demographic for 2 separate business divisions.
So if you are basing your verdict on cheating solely on whether or not MS approves the device... ask yourself if it has more to do with fair play or $$$. And whatever you answer, tell that to the 1000s of people who would now have the option to play games when they didn't before.
Caporegime
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Sorry but...tough luck. It's a shame that they've had that misfortune but what about the millions of people for which this product will unbalance the playing field and ruin their gaming experience? I have no problem with this product being used in single player games, as soon as you bring it online you are a cheater and might as well be standby glitching or using aim bots in my eyes.
Soldato
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I'll get one 
then I will play oneshot again 
then I will play oneshot again 
You could try applying the "tough luck" theory to that scenario.
In reality, you will probably come across someone using one online very rarely, and then, not actually know they are using one. Saying this will ruin the balance of gaming for millions is hilarious.