Why is Racism Unacceptable but Homophobia is Acceptable?

Amnesia said:
i certainly don't hate gay people but i guess i've never really accepted the ' i was born this way ' reason even though the evidence was right infront of my face.
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A lot of straight men fear either being gay themselves or being raped. They therefore dislike the idea that gay men exist naturally and to justify their dislike they attempt to kid them selves that gay men choose to be homosexual.

When I see someone claiming that they think its a choice or being homophobic, I see a man either afraid of his own feelings towards other men or afraid of being raped.

The latter is a very foreign idea for most straight men, rape is associated with women victims in society, the sudden idea that they can also be raped scares a lot of men when they have to accept that gay men exist. It must be a hard thing to have to deal with.
 
Castiel said:
Actually I am not a paedophile, and to suggest it, is offensive.

As both beastiality and Paedophilia are morally and legally wrong, it is not the same as being homosexual.
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Homosexuality is morally and legally wrong in some countries.

As for bestiality and paedophilia... Acting on those feelings is illegal, but having those feelings is out of your hands.
 
TangoSixteen said:
When I was a kid we used to refer to the local newsagent as the "**** shop" and the local Chinese takeaway as "Chinky"

So for instance...

"What u doing for tea tonight buddy?"

"Just off down the Chinky for a sweet and sour!"


There was no racism intended in either of these uses. More just accepted shorthand.

I think people who shout racism are only offended when it suits them.

If people were GENUINELY racist then the "**** shop" or the "chinky" probably wouldnt have any windows left, and people wouldnt be going in there and giving them their money.

In addition, we always used gay in a derogatory manner as children, christ, even I do now...

I regularly call my friends poofs, faggots, ladies etc, its all just part of the banter and people seem to get confused between this and actual Homophobia.

Homophobia to me would me a gay guy getting set upon by a gang of youths, perhaps ending up in hospital with no teeth.

Other people seem to think over hearing a conversation where someone even dares to mention the word gay as Homophobic... Where is the line drawn?
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This exact same point was made in another forum, I cant find the post. But it was very well articulated.

Found it, could be someone from this forum too;)

"Certain terms and words are designed to be hurtful, you can diffuse the meanings but they still carry the weight of the intention and are intended to strip the target of their dignity.

Which, naturally, will anger and upset people. Shrugging it off regardless of whether it actually does or doesn't offend you is worse if you ask me.

The world you are seeking existed once, and racism wasn't just limited to name-calling but also much worse stuff. Which was often "shrugged off" as acceptable"
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You wouldn't say "chinky" in a Chinese restaurant or take-away would you?:rolleyes:

Furthermore Chinky cant really be short for Chinese can it?
 
steve-h said:
Homosexuality is morally and legally wrong in some countries.

As for bestiality and paedophilia... Acting on those feelings is illegal, but having those feelings is out of your hands.
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The legality of the issue is a pretty poor way to draw a distinction, but the morality point stands. Not specific cultural morality - remember that paedophilia was rife in a number of historical civilisations, and still now holds none of the associated stigma in some parts of the world - but simply a cold assessment of the situation. You can't possibly equate a relationship between two mutually consentual adults of the same sex with a relationship between a knowing adult and a child.
 
hurfdurf said:
A lot of straight men fear either being gay themselves or being raped. They therefore dislike the idea that gay men exist naturally and to justify their dislike they attempt to kid them selves that gay men choose to be homosexual.

When I see someone claiming that they think its a choice or being homophobic, I see a man either afraid of his own feelings towards other men or afraid of being raped.

The latter is a very foreign idea for most straight men, rape is associated with women victims in society, the sudden idea that they can also be raped scares a lot of men when they have to accept that gay men exist. It must be a hard thing to have to deal with.
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I'm straight, I have no fear of being gay or being raped. Homophobes are generally just ignorant and bigots, I doubt they are all latent homosexuals or living in fear of being sexually abused.

As for it being a choice, it is, everything is a choice including the choice to embrace your sexuality.
 
Deadbeat said:
The legality of the issue is a pretty poor way to draw a distinction
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I agree, I was pointing that out in my post ;)


Deadbeat said:
You can't possibly equate a relationship between two mutually consentual adults of the same sex with a relationship between a knowing adult and a child.
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I don't, at all. I'm relating those people's feelings. You can't choose what you like and what you don't like.

I'm saying if you fancy children there's not much you can do about it, apart from not act upon it. As I said... statutory rape is still statutory rape.
 
steve-h said:
course it can, footie/football... not really harder to say football, but we seem to like to shorten everything down in england
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Ok, point taken. But still, using the word in a non racist context is still a grey area. Because it has been and still is used as a racial slur.

I use racial slurs in the safety of my own privacy and amongst friends who know its just banter, but when you use it openly/in public you do risk offending people.

Yes people will say they have chinese friends who don't think its racist 'because' it wasnt used in a racist context. But I can guarantee you they're not 100% comfortable with it. By saying they're not ok with it makes it more of an issue than it actually is.
 
Robbie G said:
Is it? News to me.

Personally the degree to which your average chinaman can kick a lot of arse makes me avoid that phrase above all others :p.
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So you are implying all "chinamen" know some kind of martial arts? :p

We had an interesting email come around the other day headed:

"Invitation: Black Employee Network Kick off"

Image the reaction we would get if it read:

"Invitation: White Employee Network Kick off"

Why is one ok and the not?
 
bloodline76 said:
So you are implying all "chinamen" know some kind of martial arts? :p

We had an interesting email come around the other day headed:

"Invitation: Black Employee Network Kick off"

Image the reaction we would get if it read:

"Invitation: White Employee Network Kick off"

Why is one ok and the not?
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Because black people are at a severe disadvantage in many areas historically and currently.
 
[TW]Fox;17012053 said:
What disadavantages do black people face in British society right now, in the workplace?
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Us white folk tend to not notice it because it doesn't affect us, but the research and statistics are all there to show it, as does a bit of basic common sense and the knowledge of British history in the way we treated black people. It is kind of hard to argue against fact. Whilst I freely admit that affirmative action is controversial and there is an argument to be had that colour-blindness would be the be all and end all of solutions eventually, I don't think we are there yet by a long stretch.

Black pupils 'are routinely marked down by teachers'. Teachers' assessment of children's ability is undermined by stereotyping, says research

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/apr/04/sats-marking-race-stereotypes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJRh3tOnMr4&feature=related - American based but shows how history has given white people massive advantages that has trickled down, still massively affecting us.


Just quickly, here's some academic papers on the subject, mostly based on America, but bare in mind they have much more affirmative action than we do.

Research indicating that job applicants with white sounding names have a 50 percent better chance of being called back for an interview than their counterparts with black-sounding names, even when all qualifications are the same?

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

A study that found white job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same?

http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf

The fact that black males with college degrees are almost twice as likely as their white male counterparts to be out of work?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html?_r=3

Research that shows black students being suspended and expelled from school at far higher rates than white students, even though there are no significant differences in the rates at which students of different races violate serious school rules?

http://www.springerlink.com/content/m1u4806148441l8x/
 
There isn't much I can add which hasn't already been said however, while I am not a fan of homosexuality I don't mind if people are gay. I will admit that I do not like camp people. There is no reason for men to act like 'fairies', its just ridiculous.

They draw so much attention to themselves, its no wonder they get so many problems!

I do believe your environment has a large part of who you become sexually, so maybe in some circumstances it is a choice of sorts. I could be wrong though.

MatthewHotDude, you are making such a big deal out of this very few people care if you are gay but drawing it on yourself isn't the greatest idea!
 
I am utterly bewildered by your post hurfdurf.
Why are you linking single paper studies from 7-8 years ago in the USA?
Research, studies, 'facts'?
How do you think this correlates to a modern Britian? A place where a Catholic still can't be Prime Minister.

Are you trying to tell us America is racist? Seriously? Like we don't know that. Most countries in the world are racist, and homophobic, and xenophobic. As humans we discriminate against that which is not-self. It is part of what makes us human. We shouldn't but we do, and I bet everyone here has discrimiated in some fashion in their life, be it an action, a word, or merely a thought. Even the bleeding hearts do, when they can't comprehend of someone can't follow their logic and love everyone as they do.
 
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