Starcraft - Yay or Nay

I never played the sc1 single player to the end, I have found the single player in sc2 very good, the animations in the cut scenes are amazing. I can see why it took so long. But i suck at the game so it is frustrating when i can't pass missions on normal. I am stuck on a mission where a big wall of fire is moving and i have to move my base :/ but i realy like the feature that allows you to change the skill level on each mission. So if i get tired of failing i can move it to casual and win.

Have not played multi player cause i think i will just loose to a quick rush over and over.
 
is that not what you would do to make a perfect game? take the best bits from one, get rid of the worst bits from another?
No? they might both be RTS games but they are not the same style, you can't just cherry pick good bits from CoH and drop them into SC2 and vice versa, it just wouldn't work out. It's like taking bunny hoping and box jumping from Quake Live (which is awesome) and slapping them into Bad Company 2 to speed the game up, would be horrific because whilst they are both FPS games, they are not the same style.

Also, as CaptainRAVE pointed out, we do already have a SC2 discussion thread, should probably lock this one as the OP got his replies and continue conversations in there :)
 
I have posted in this and the official thread with similar feelings to Nickg, I accept they are different. I think Starcraft 2 is total junk, seriously outdated for the new millenium. Nonetheless I accept people like to play it.

Same as Quake compared to America's Army, both FPS titles, but vastly different play styles and mechanics. My days of C & C style RTS and Quake FPS's are long since over, I enjoy more adult games, thats why I like games like Arma 2, DCS Black Shark, CoH and Men of War.
 
In all honesty, Id say nay.

I really cant get on with it.

I know part of the draw of it is that it hasent evolved at all from Starcraft 1, but I find it un-satisfying to play.

I much prefer something like Dawn of War 2 or Company of Heroes that has things like cover, flanking, veterency.

I know people will probably say "but starcraft has flanking!", but it doesent really, not in the same way.
 
to oxy:
I wouldn't call quake live a non adult game. I think you just prefer games that are more realistic looking and go for realism over game play.

Quake live and starcraft 2 are more focused on competitive play and gameplay than trying to make it realistic. But i can see how you say it looks less adult than the games you mentioned. Especially to a someone who does not know games, like a girl friend for example.

But the story of starcraft 2 and some of the talkovers i thought it was childish.
 
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watch tennis, when someone wins a game (even if its the first game of a 5 set match) im sure they will show some form of pleasure.?



if the game is well designed and balanced then there wont be a way to play 'properly' you simply play. if you can do a base rush and the online segment turns into base rush fest it means that base rushes are overpowered or that there is something flawed in the early game concept..

for example to stop people from getting into your base in COH you start the game with 2 base defences already in position (to cover 2 exits) thats not to say that by the 10,min mark they cant build tanks or something to enter your base with but it renders a 2 minute base rush completely unfeasible.

or you could spend 25munitions and lay a mine on the entrance so anyone who tries to get in some how takes that much damage they have to retreat or face certain extermination

but then the game is not necessarily based around base extermination but control of the outer field the resources points and ultimately the VPs - this dynamic forces you well outside of your base, and ensures skirmishes in the middle or sides of the map as all of the resources are spread around - so the better you play, the more you force your opponent back towards his base, the more resources you will be gaining

SC2 to me seems that top begin with both teams have enough resource right next to their base so they dont have to fight over it and can literally build a blob without ever skirmishing before in the game and then try to walk into your opponent base:/



probably because a base rush is risky, you either win in 5 minutes or you lose. theres no emotional or mental investment into what is going on, or trying to build up VET on your inf - keep them alive - improve them - take on more next time?

i note that SC2 avoids veterency as i say above, reducing the want to keep a unit alive or even necessitating that a unit stays alive?

Why are you Still trying to compare two games that are on the total opposite sides of the RTS spectrum?.. its pointless!

Rushes, if done properly, are never "risky", unless of course your doing a cheese type of rush, like a proxy or something. Sure you can win, but if you micro/macro correctly you should still have the economy to be able to tech while harassing with your rush. the idea of a rush is never to right out kill the enemy, at least not in high level play. the idea is to keep them making core units, so you get the map control, and better economy.

the idea of having map control, is that it enables you to contain your enemy so your able to expand, or spend extra resources on upgrades or technology. It also gives you the vision needed to prevent them from harassing you or doing sneaky drops or flanking.

Play it.. and you'll find that if you don't keep your units alive while your harassing you'll soon lose by getting over-run when they come to attack.

is that not what you would do to make a perfect game? take the best bits from one, get rid of the worst bits from another?

that he misquoted me, when i said SC2 is good i dont know but it certainly doesnt make me a fanboy.

do you not want better games?

your definatly a CoH fanboy. I've heard nothing else from you... but then, i dont blame you, it is i admit an extreamly good game...Sure, everybody wants games to improve..SC2 has improved on SC1 thats why its a sequel... if Blizzard wanted to replicate somebody elses product im sure they'd have no problem in doing it and doing it well. But why bother when they obviously have a winning formula of their own already...

Its never been dubbed the next gen RTS.. it isnt, it pretty much stands alone and is evident it has the biggest following.

Im still bemused as to what this blob vs blob mechanic is about, im still yet to see it in 12 years of playing Starcraft... It may not be as complex as having cover or armour etc, but it works as it is, why do they need to add mechanics that arent required

My personal overview of SCII is that its designed for the fans rather than aiming at a new following. Sure it has some features that can attact new players, but can you imagine how much support Blizzard would lose if they made SCII like CoH... goodbye e-sport, goodbye sponsors and goodbye old following. SCII is exactly what its deisgned for. if you don't like it, its probably because you don't/can't understand what its actually aiming for.
 
to oxy:
I wouldn't call quake live a non adult game. I think you just prefer games that are more realistic looking and go for realism over game play.

Quake live and starcraft 2 are more focused on competitive play and gameplay than trying to make it realistic. But i can see how you say it looks less adult than the games you mentioned. Especially to a someone who does not know games, like a girl friend for example.

But the story of starcraft 2 and some of the talkovers i thought it was childish.


I'll concede the realism part of your argument, but the gameplay side is subjective. I think more realism means better gameplay.

You may consider realism results in poor gameplay.

Horses for courses and all that.

As I have said b4, when SC2 is £10-£15 I'll buy it. It's good for retarded fun, but not worth £35 for me, considering what it is.

Same applies for Worms reloaded, I would love to buy it but its over priced by about £5-8 for what it is.
 
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yes it add a whole new layer of complexity - fancy that! making a game more complicated to play>!

yes its harder to balance - yes it adds more skill and technique...

Starcraft is plenty complex. If you ever actually play the game at a reasonable level you will know this. It's at a perfect balance between complexity and speed. Adding other things will do nothing good for the game. Making it more complex will take away from Starcraft has evolved into over the last 12 years. Starcraft 2 is perfect because it keeps the same formula and thus will continue to be the biggest, most competitive esport in the world. It doesn't need CoH features. CoH isn't an esport.
 
I am not overly impressed at all really and for me the big let down are the factions.

Terran are fun to play with a few cool units but the other two faction mainly the zerg I just cant get any empathy for they just seem very boring and not as polished as terran.

It's a good game but ultimately a shallow spam fest blob rts imo.
Spam units send blob to point a rinse repeat you get the picture just like c&c 3.

There's no one unit can hold back many as in say company of heroes it's just blob vs blob or over early because of a rush.
Next game relic makes after coh online will probably be the best rts.

You're right about Zerg. They are undercooked. But I would disagree about 'spam fest'. Yeah it's about macro, producing as much 'stuff' as you can. But the depth comes from what 'stuff' to build, when to build it, and what to do with it when you have it.

For example, I have a build completely reliant on a single unit, the void ray, buying me enough time to transition to a tech tier. That a single unit can dictate what my opponent does is a powerful thing. That one unit wont win me the game in and of itself. But it shapes the game, it squeezes it in the direction I want.

Understanding cause and effect, being able to read and react to your opponent, that is what SC is about. For some people the pace and mental energy it requires is too much . That's fine. But to say it's down to a lack of depth, that's nonsense.

But to reiterate though, yeah. Zerg are not all they could be right now.
 
Could you bend over any further?

I must say i've lost interest in the RTS genre these days. Nothing of any real interest seems to be coming out because its all dumbed down like SC2 and C&C3+. Something tells me if i did get it i'd just look back at the original and wonder what went wrong...

I've seen a lot of criticism of SC2, but 'dumbed-down' is not one of them. In fact the most common refrain is how uncompromising it is.
 
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