**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

I must admit since Thursday I really started playing this. I played about 10 + games against people from OcUK. Had some great matches. I got raped loads and I learnt a lot. Since then I started playing with my clan doing 4v4, 3v3 etc. I've prob had about 30-40 league games now and I must say my game is 100x better than it was before.

I watched that video by day9 I think it was were he analyses some match and is going on about resource management and how certain units are doing nothing or leave to early. I'm starting to get things down to a T so the units are not sitting idle doing nothing.

I have one tactic which works well in 4v4 as the other 3 can defend me lol, 1v1 I'm still learning. I'm good early game but mid/long I'm still struggling.

But the more I play the better I get and I'm really enjoying this. Although every match I seem to play seems to be against people in a higher league :(
 
I feel ZvP is probably in favour (slightly) of Zerg at the moment actually. It's just that we don't struggle nearly as much versus Terran (but it's still very, very tough, you _have_ to be a better player than the Terran (or get lucky), to win). ZvT is basically doesn't matter if you're a better player, the odds are the Zerg is going to lose.

ZvP, the problem is map control. In order to get the hahah I win death ball (mass stalkers, sentries, 4-5 colossi), you have to give up map control and suffer pretty insane muta harass. If you can survive that, and get your ball together, the Zerg is running anywhere between 3-5 bases and roach/hydra your deathball, die, then follow up with infestor, ultra.

You can't out macro Zerg because you have nothing that can stand up to hydras. You have a window early game and if you don't do some damage there (10 supply, 2 gate pressure), you're probably going to lose against a good zerg.

There's one build I worked on last night which works against this muta ling into expo, mass expand, but it's an all-in and if scouted fails miserably. There's no real stable build to give you mid game parity with Zerg at the moment. And it's that midgame period that's really tough vs Terran too actually.
 
that live sc2 stream website iccup is really good thanks for linking it :D. getting lot better at P now won 9 games in a row yesterday :D. Still can't fit protss air into my strats at all tho practically ignore the starport and beacon as a rule not sure why!
 
Resaonable win here i think TvT. Any pointers would be good though. http://www.mediafire.com/?3uscp9tpim9x75x

Also how the hell do i defend a zergling rush. Guy just sent 5 at me at which point i only had 1 marine out and there was nothing i could do. 2nd time its happened to me today.
1 Marine is more than enough if you've walled in properly. Always wall in vs Zerg.
 
that live sc2 stream website iccup is really good thanks for linking it :D. getting lot better at P now won 9 games in a row yesterday :D. Still can't fit protss air into my strats at all tho practically ignore the starport and beacon as a rule not sure why!
I've been having some success with 3gate VR rush, and its easy to transition from that into an end game VR type scenario if you need too.

One nice tactic I've used as part of the 3gate/VR rush (might have seen it somewhere but I think I worked it out)is to place a pylon below someones base as you're ready to rush, and they don't always notice it (ofc a good scout will). Get a VR down to the pylon so it sights above it and you can start warping in essentially behind their defences which will usually be stationed at the ramp.
 
I feel ZvP is probably in favour (slightly) of Zerg at the moment actually. It's just that we don't struggle nearly as much versus Terran (but it's still very, very tough, you _have_ to be a better player than the Terran (or get lucky), to win). ZvT is basically doesn't matter if you're a better player, the odds are the Zerg is going to lose.

ZvP, the problem is map control. In order to get the hahah I win death ball (mass stalkers, sentries, 4-5 colossi), you have to give up map control and suffer pretty insane muta harass. If you can survive that, and get your ball together, the Zerg is running anywhere between 3-5 bases and roach/hydra your deathball, die, then follow up with infestor, ultra.

You can't out macro Zerg because you have nothing that can stand up to hydras. You have a window early game and if you don't do some damage there (10 supply, 2 gate pressure), you're probably going to lose against a good zerg.

There's one build I worked on last night which works against this muta ling into expo, mass expand, but it's an all-in and if scouted fails miserably. There's no real stable build to give you mid game parity with Zerg at the moment. And it's that midgame period that's really tough vs Terran too actually.

I guess the problem I have as zerg is each game against non-zerg races is a gamble on what tech to use. On most maps your enemy will get a tight wall off... By the time your Overlord has reached your enemies base you have already had to start making tech decisions as Zerg. Gamble wrong and those decisions are worse than worthless they are crippling. Bot Terran and Protoss have decent core units Terran : M&M Toss : Stalker Sentry Zealot
These units will do you well against 80-90% of enemy strats, all you have to do is adjust unit production to suit, whilst building your next tech level. - These are all tier 1, 1.5 units. All zergs tier 1/1.5 units are are meatshields. The baneling become more of a nuisance / distraction against terran (unless they go mass marines) and are not that useful against Toss.


Zerg early game is practically an all in:

Make too many drones - Die to early aggression
Fast expand - crippled by early aggression
Make too many units - Have too weak an economy to keep up
Mass Lings - Die to zealots/Marines/hellions
Mass Roaches - Die to marauders/stalkers/air.

Get to mid game. see enemy has a lot of X units
Make Mutas. - Hope he doesn't attack before I have 8 + mutas
Make Hydras - Hope he doesn't go Colossus/tanks/mass carriers/mass BC

Late game "I usually win \o/" - Unless its on Kulas Ravine

At the moment My match-up preference is :
Zerg - Ballanced game best player will win. I'm quite comfortable in these matches, and feel like I win most of them (where the enemy doesn't > 9 pool)
Terran - Most Terrans I am playing at the moment are stupid. If they were any other race they would be bronze maybe silver level players. but because they are terrans their All in strats probably give them a positive win: loss ratio. But I'm fairly good at spotting all ins. I'm winning about 60-70% against Terran (currently. And each loss feels like I have lost not because I was outplayed... But because the race was better than mine)
Toss- I hate playing Toss. These players seem to be about the same level as me (maybe a bit lower in skill) but they just have the right tools for the job and there are some quite clear anti-Zerg builds that will put a lot of preassure on Zerg. If I get to the late mid game (i.e. start researching hive) I am usually in good shape. But up until that point I simply do not have the right units to fight Toss.
 
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I guess the problem I have as zerg is each game against non-zerg races is a gamble on what tech to use. On most maps your enemy will get a tight wall off... By the time your Overlord has reached your enemies base you have already had to start making tech decisions as Zerg. Gamble wrong and those decisions are worse than worthless they are crippling. Bot Terran and Protoss have decent core units Terran : M&M Toss : Stalker Sentry Zealot
These units will do you well against 80-90% of enemy strats, all you have to do is adjust unit production to suit, whilst building your next tech level. - These are all tier 1, 1.5 units. All zergs tier 1/1.5 units are are meatshields. The baneling become more of a nuisance / distraction against terran (unless they go mass marines) and are not that useful against Toss.


Zerg early game is practically an all in:

Make too many drones - Die to early aggression
Fast expand - crippled by early aggression
Make too many units - Have too weak an economy to keep up
Mass Lings - Die to zealots/Marines/hellions
Mass Roaches - Die to marauders/stalkers/air.

Get to mid game. see enemy has a lot of X units
Make Mutas. - Hope he doesn't attack before I have 8 + mutas
Make Hydras - Hope he doesn't go Colossus/tanks/mass carriers/mass BC

Late game "I usually win \o/" - Unless its on Kulas Ravine

At the moment My match-up preference is :
Zerg - Ballanced game best player will win. I'm quite comfortable in these matches, and feel like I win most of them (where the enemy doesn't > 9 pool)
Terran - Most Terrans I am playing at the moment are stupid. If they were any other race they would be bronze maybe silver level players. but because they are terrans their All in strats probably give them a positive win: loss ratio. But I'm fairly good at spotting all ins. I'm winning about 60-70% against Terran (currently. And each loss feels like I have lost not because I was outplayed... But because the race was better than mine)
Toss- I hate playing Toss. These players seem to be about the same level as me (maybe a bit lower in skill) but they just have the right tools for the job and there are some quite clear anti-Zerg builds that will put a lot of preassure on Zerg. If I get to the late mid game (i.e. start researching hive) I am usually in good shape. But up until that point I simply do not have the right units to fight Toss.

I'll post some replays of me versus Indie, he does my nut in with Speedling harass into muta harass into mass expansion.

I would say this level of play is good enough to beat most < 600 level diamond protoss players. Even at a 100 apm I struggle to beat this kind of harass.

I'm getting closer though.... :D I want to test my new build. But seriously I think the key is abusing speedlings for map control. As protoss I'm scared of committing to too many gateway units and being unable to break a spine crawler / speedling defense. If you waste your units on a failed assault you lose immediately.

If you see a Protoss player gearing up for 2 gate harass then build a couple spine crawlers, 20 or so speedlings. And trust me, you cannot break a zerg on 2 gates against that kind of defense. When I pull back to tech up, you can expand, once maybe even twice with map control. Because I can't afford to make many units while teching. What Indie does at this point once he sees off my early pressure is to go muta->expand. His mutas pin me in my base and waste my apm (which means I can't macro or counter attack effectively) while he drones up. When I finally cobble together an offensive force, he's ready for it with a roaring economy and upgraded roaches and hydras. Basically all he has to do is contain me until I mine out of my main and then I can't afford to keep up with his unit production.
 
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I'll post some replays of me versus Indie, he does my nut in with Speedling harass into muta harass into mass expansion.

I would say this level of play is good enough to beat most < 600 level diamond protoss players. Even at a 100 apm I struggle to beat this kind of harass.

I'm getting closer though.... :D I want to test my new build. But seriously I think the key is abusing speedlings for map control. As protoss I'm scared of committing to too many gateway units and being unable to break a spine crawler / speedling defense. If you waste your units on a failed assault you lose immediately.

If you see a Protoss player gearing up for 2 gate harass then build a couple spine crawlers, 20 or so speedlings. And trust me, you cannot break a zerg on 2 gates against that kind of defense. When I pull back to tech up, you can expand, once maybe even twice with map control. Because I can't afford to make many units while teching. What Indie does at this point once he sees off my early pressure is to go muta->expand. His mutas pin me in my base and waste my apm (which means I can't macro or counter attack effectively) while he drones up. When I finally cobble together an offensive force, he's ready for it with a roaring economy and upgraded roaches and hydras. Basically all he has to do is contain me until I mine out of my main and then I can't afford to keep up with his unit production.

TBH its the only thing we have in our arsenal at the moment.

The problem is at Gold level the Toss player will 100% of the time base race me if I put mutas into his base and he thinks he cant kill them off. (actually Terrans tend to lift off and base race me a lot too). They almost never retreat back to their base to fend off the attack. By the time my mutas get back across the map... well I'm never in good shape.

Mass lings are no good against colossus or VR. (and do terribly against zealots too)

Generally the ebb and flow of my ZvP games are. He will timing push me early on, which will either kill me off if its a 3-4 gate or I will hold it off and tech. If he pushes before I have 8 mutas again... GG. If I have 8 Mutas and he attacks I will push it back. but I will find 99million cannons + stalkers in his base.
If I attack him before his Colossus push I will do terrible terrible damage to his mineral line and he will all all in against me. which my ling/roach army cant prevent. So if I don't get the mutas back in time I will lose, if I send the mutas back early (i.e. before I have done a tonne of damage to his mineral line), then he can still rebuild a competent army fast enough to keep pressure on me.

I never ever feel like I have map control against toss (Against Terran I have the opposite feeling, I have 90% map control and still know it makes not a blind bit of difference).

Maybe I need to change my Toss BO a bit and build 4 lings (scouts) followed by 4 roaches (to guard my choke) then go mass ling there in. This will allow me to save up gas and get mutas out earlier. Assuming I don't end up fighting mass lotts I should be ok. I guess additionally I should be not looking to engage his lott/stalker army with my lings. But looking to keep threatening to attack his base whilst he is out on the field. With this threat I guess I will have the freedom to expand. which will allow me to mass mutas and strengthen my economy.

I'll give it a go,
 
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If anyone is looking to practise vs a terran just leave your name :)

I'm in diamond (only 400 ladder points though) so if someone is around this level, i'm really looking for people to practise against in custom before I do any more ladder.

Will practise vs any race don't mind!
 
Resaonable win here i think TvT. Any pointers would be good though. http://www.mediafire.com/?3uscp9tpim9x75x

Also how the hell do i defend a zergling rush. Guy just sent 5 at me at which point i only had 1 marine out and there was nothing i could do. 2nd time its happened to me today.

Which one are you?

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Seems you're the red. Very similar to my style of play, I like it. Few things I noticed:

- You queue up units in the CC and rax. Get into the habit of having as few queueing as possible, ideally none.

- You get two tech labs for your rax and pump marines from both of them. 1 tech lab and 1 reactor would be a better composition.

- I would get that third rax up quicker, around the time you expand. I usually go for four.

- I notice you get medievacs up quickly. Good call. You can get more out quicker if you build a reactor on your factory as your starport starts building. Once both are done (will be around the same time) lift off the factory, lift off the starport and place it onto the reactor.

- You spend some energy on those silo upgrades. Unless you've just had some destroyed and you're harshly supply blocked I recommend against it. Use it for MULEs and later game also bring in scans to reveal hidden units.
 
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Resaonable win here i think TvT. Any pointers would be good though. http://www.mediafire.com/?3uscp9tpim9x75x

Also how the hell do i defend a zergling rush. Guy just sent 5 at me at which point i only had 1 marine out and there was nothing i could do. 2nd time its happened to me today.

Watched your reply. If you pushed your army at around the 7min mark and kept reinforcing you wiould of easily won (quicker). He didnt get his orbital command till like 26ish supply and didnt build any more than like 12 scv's.
 
does anyone know how the ladder system works, you have to get rank 1 with ladder points before promotion? seems completely random to me and kind of annoying stuck in silver despite winning 60%+ of games and beating a lot of golds for what seems liek ages crawling up the ladder points but seems a grind. whereas if retook placement now would probably be straight to gold, irrating!
 
does anyone know how the ladder system works, you have to get rank 1 with ladder points before promotion? seems completely random to me and kind of annoying stuck in silver despite winning 60%+ of games and beating a lot of golds for what seems liek ages crawling up the ladder points but seems a grind. whereas if retook placement now would probably be straight to gold, irrating!

You don't need to get to rank 1. I was at rank 4 I think in silver when I got promoted to platinum. Just keep winning.
 
Always forget to build something ffs. Was doing well (i thought) had 2 expansions tons of units then i get invaded by cloaked banshees and theres **** all i can do because my only tower was at the wall-in not near enough my main.
 
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