Martial arts for self-defence for rookies - the experts need to be more frank I think.

[Josh107]

Indeed. Even if you win you will also lose. Examples...

Exactly what I'm talking about, when we occasionally venture into doing self defence style things, the teacher always runs through the 'nike defence' first just for any newbies that might not be familiar with it.

The look on some peoples faces when he gets a guy to pretend to attack him then runs out the door and legs it down the street are priceless!

 

[Pixel]

Dude
just make sure you've your keyboard ready at ALL TIMES and you have nothing to fear!

Get one of those rubber fold-up ones, roll it up and it fits in your pocket. You can also use it like a whip.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

OP: The point of martial arts training is to make it "muscle memory" aka instinct to use the techniques learned.

I'm in the unfortunate position to have been attacked a few times, but fortunate that I have had a few years Karate training. It really does make a difference, even 10 years after I stopped training. (Did the training when young - from 8 to about 13)

I was astonished to find myself doing just what had been taught to me over and over every Saturday for those 5 or so years, even small things like the stance and reactionary blocks just happened without conscious thought.

 

[JBuk]

Why haven't you spoken to your instructor(s) about this? Seems the logical place to start.

.

C'mon , everyone knows the internet is the best place to start

 

[hurfdurf]

You do realise that just about all of the big names in MMA have skills taken from those fore mentioned techniques, don't you?

Nope

Name one Aikido move CroCop has trained. Name one Kung Fu strike, take down or submission Fedor has implemented into his game.

All the top guys bar Machida (who uses point Karate mixed with Muay Thai) use Ju Jitsu, Kick Boxing, Muay Thai, Boxing, Judo (tiny amount, very rare) or Wrestling.

 

[rotters]

you forgot krav maga.

 

[VeNT]

Get one of those rubber fold-up ones, roll it up and it fits in your pocket. You can also use it like a whip.

I was looking at the plastic folding ones, what are they called? Z boards?
pull it out of the back pocket, flick of the wrist and it's locked and ready to go!

 

[fez]

Karate and most martial arts are just sports. They may make you more prepared for a fight but they are all constrained to a predefined set of rules which is why the best fighters are ALWAYS mma.

You take the best parts of each discipline and end up with a complete style. The best striking and best ground based arts will always come out top. Muay thai and ju jitsu are pretty much pre-requisites for any mma fighter.

My ex used to do karate and it was shocking. They create a feeling that you are better prepared and skilled to fight off anyone who has not had any training whereas the reality can be quite the opposite.

If you train yourself to perform pre programmed defences and attacks based on a particular style and against another practitioner of the same art you will lose some of your natural reactions to those that tell you your opponent can only perform certain attacks.

Whenever one of the people at the previously mentioned club showed me anything it was always with the understanding that you cannot do this and you must do this. The black belts could perform some very nice kata but they speed and sparring was appalling.

As with most things, the trainer and the student are more important that the art itself in most cases but if you are looking for an art that will help you defend yourself you need one with full contact sparring and a melting pot of techniques.

 

[hurfdurf]

Karate and most martial arts are just sports. They may make you more prepared for a fight but they are all constrained to a predefined set of rules which is why the best fighters are ALWAYS mma.

You take the best parts of each discipline and end up with a complete style. The best striking and best ground based arts will always come out top. Muay thai and ju jitsu are pretty much pre-requisites for any mma fighter.

My ex used to do karate and it was shocking. They create a feeling that you are better prepared and skilled to fight off anyone who has not had any training whereas the reality can be quite the opposite.

If you train yourself to perform pre programmed defences and attacks based on a particular style and against another practitioner of the same art you will lose some of your natural reactions to those that tell you your opponent can only perform certain attacks.

Whenever one of the people at the previously mentioned club showed me anything it was always with the understanding that you cannot do this and you must do this. The black belts could perform some very nice kata but they speed and sparring was appalling.

As with most things, the trainer and the student are more important that the art itself in most cases but if you are looking for an art that will help you defend yourself you need one with full contact sparring and a melting pot of techniques.

This is a good post, OP should read this post and my posts in this thread, ignore all others, except maybe Meridian's.

 

[Soviet]

I used to do Wing Chun for a good few months before I jacked it in. The reason being a lot of the time was spent doing moves which mitigated the attacker's punches and put you in a position of advantage by working on the fact they wasted their energy on that punch.

It's all well and good but as stated by a few people here it's useless in a real-life scenario as it's not a controlled situation. Unless they're drunk a punch is going to come at you so fast you're not going to have time to start blocking it with your arms, and if they start flurrying blows and kicks then the technique goes out the window.
Let's face it, the majority of fights are going to come from weekend town centre brawls which always end in a mass of flailing limbs.

Again, as said from here the best option is to take the best from what you learn and apply it with other techniques, usually from various other forms of martial arts, or even self-taught. This may take years and years to accomplish but so be it.

At the moment I'm beginning to study Krav Maga. I like the fact it isn't a martial art as such and doesn't have 'rules' and isn't there for style. And the fact I'm a police officer and it comes in handy for my job.

 

[^TANK^]

If I completed my martial arts training, I would actually be fearful of causing another mans death should I lose my temper in a more ferocious than normal fashion.

??

Its true. I worry about these things. For instance, should I ever catch a burglar in my house, well, things would get nasty, and I may lock them in a room for a few days, and issue sporadic but controlled beatings.

Either that or if it happened really quickly and the other party foolishly decided to get involved in something, well, the last thing I want to happen is for any neighbours to see me dragging a body out onto the street.

 

[Badgi]

If I completed my martial arts training, I would actually be fearful of causing another mans death should I lose my temper in a more ferocious than normal fashion.

If your martial arts training is not teaching you self control, then you fail already.

As for the OP, I do martial arts and at no point does my Sifu create the illusion that you're going to be untouchable, in fact he encourages us to hit hard so we get used to being hit.

As for defence against weapons, especially knives, the first thing he always says is "if you're going to defend yourself against a knife attack, you're going to get cut."

You have to learn to resign yourself to the fact that if you get into a fight or have to defend yourself, chances are you are going to take a blow. It's the will and resolve to carry on regardless that makes the difference.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

You're either a fighter or you're not. No amount of Pyjama wearing or making 'Woooh-ahh-oooooh-weee-waahhhh-uuuuuuww' noises will make you one if you aren't.

I 100% agree.
I got to black belt status in 1984 and I was still a pussy compared to white belts.
I could give it out in the Dojo with all the preset Kata's, I could take all the wood breaking over my arms, legs, chest and back which would amaze people at demo's but in the real world I wouldn't get far in a street fight.
I've never been in a pub/street/school fight ever and I come from a rough area and go into rough pubs.
I'm an expert at knowing where not to look and not looking as though I'm hard.

 

[KatanaDV20]

Wow I never expected such an enormous response Thanx guys hee hee. V interesting to read what you all have to say and obviously some of you who replied have been doing some sort of fighting art for quite a while.

I am doing Shotokan Karate. Right from the start I want to stress I did not take this up to become Jet Li or Van Damme. I took it up for two primary reasons:

1. To get fit (found the gymn too boring)
2. To meet people. This has worked great and Ive made a bunch of new mates.

Right off the bat I will totally agree with the statement that the best defence in the world is not to get into a fight situation in the first place. Now for me the risk is a tiny bit reduced as I dont drink and cant stand bars, pubs etc. I avoid crowds like that like the plague.

In the end its all about risk management. Walk down the dark alley and be home in 10mins or wait for a cab and be home in 25?

Taunts hurled at you from 4 wannabe gangstas across the street...pull your shirt off and go into "C'mon lets have it" mode or just keep walking....choices.

However the world is not fair and well....I dont have to repeat what happened to me,,,or the other poor people out there jumped for no reason.

I will also totally and utterly agree that martial arts today are mainly sports and unless ....**UNLESS** you are exceptionally extremelly crazily good......all the karate in the world aint gonna help when big hairy drunk dude decides his fist wants a date with your face. Several times.

You're either a fighter or you're not. No amount of Pyjama wearing or making 'Woooh-ahh-oooooh-weee-waahhhh-uuuuuuww' noises will make you one if you aren't.

Very well said and I 100% agree also. Unless you have the Lion inside of you its not gonna work. Hahaha @ "Woooh-ahh-oooooh-weee-waahhhh-uuuuuuww"

One of you made the excellent point that it takes a millisecond for a punch to strike when youre in the typical street situation....its a good point that to be able to TAKE that first punch decides the outcome. I guess the thing to do in that situation is stay the hell outta range of that fist!

The reason I started this thread was because I am under NO illusion that all the self-defense stuff is all well and good in the comfort of a well-lit hall and black-belters showing off fancy moves. But even after I see the fastest and best black-belts flinging someone on the floor in milliseconds I have my doubts about wether they could pull it off in the world outside. Because even while they show effective technique they still KNOW whats coming (eg right-hand punch)....in the real world you have no idea.

As many of you stressed there are NO rules on the street.BAM. Youre hit. BAM. Youre hit again. And on the ground. Thats the real world.

I read with interest how many of you mentioned boxing....a very good point. Hmmm...it does have me thinking.

However I really do enjoy my karate....and I dont just go for the physical exercise. Im kinda going through a tough time in my personal life and the teachings of karate are helping me cope. And also the high after a good workout is hard to beat. Moreover I honestly ENJOY being pushed.

And although I will never be Jet Li its nice to be able to slowly notice inprovement in power, reflexes and flexibility. I highly recommend it to anyone else on here who wants to work out but found bashing on treadmills and rowing machines too boring.

Oh and...

the teacher always runs through the 'nike defence' first just for any newbies that might not be familiar with it.
The look on some peoples faces when he gets a guy to pretend to attack him then runs out the door and legs it down the street are priceless!

Hahahaha!!! Excellent! At least Im good at THAT! I can run like the wind....

 

[Cold_And_Miserable]

I've heard strength makes more difference than training in a hand-to-hand fight.
Also, no amount of training is going to help you if an attacker sneaks up behind you with a metal crowbar and cracks open your brain stem killing you instantly.

 

[hurfdurf]

At the moment I'm beginning to study Krav Maga. I like the fact it isn't a martial art as such and doesn't have 'rules' and isn't there for style. And the fact I'm a police officer and it comes in handy for my job.

Krav Maga does own from a purely self defence point of view. As a police officer what are your restrictions on dealings with a person coming at you? Are you allowed to go straight for the closed fist punches or able to use them at all in fact?

I've heard strength makes more difference than training in a hand-to-hand fight.

LOL. Strength matters big time if it goes to the ground or in the clinch game, who ever told you that is either really weak or retarded, probably both.

 

[The IPB]

hurfdurf do you train, or are you just a big MMA fan?

 

[Soviet]

Krav Maga does own from a purely self defence point of view. As a police officer what are your restrictions on dealings with a person coming at you? Are you allowed to go straight for the closed fist punches or able to use them at all in fact?

I'm allowed (and members of the public included) to use any force that is reasonable for the situation. For example I could pre-emptively punch someone square in the face in an attempt to knock them unconcious or to incapacitate if I felt I was at risk of imminent serious injury.

Reasonable force differs from person to person based on factors such as height, weight, strength etc so one person's necessity to use force may be completely different to someone else's.

 

[wozzizname]

I trained in karate for a few years and got my black belt with a well-respected instructor, but have no illusions as to my capabilities.

We had a few sessions with a local doorman, who had previously been a Kyuokushinkai black belt in the old days, and was known for his old party trick of being able to break baseball bats with his shin. He started door work full of confidence, but he said the reality is scary - people so drugged up or psyched up that almost no matter how hard you hit them they won't go down. And if they do, they'll be back for you tooled up for revenge. He showed us some videos taken when he was doing the doors (shot to prevent accusations of brutality against his team) and it was pretty scary stuff - he himself had been stabbed and shot at, and owed his life to a decent kevlar vest.

The long and the short of it was that you should do absolutely anything you can to avoid conflict - don't go to dodgy clubs, ignore provocation and get away at the first hint of trouble. Once trouble starts, even the pros who deal with it all the time worry for their safety, so doing a bit of martial arts training a couple of times a week probably won't save you if someone really means business.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Nope

Name one Aikido move CroCop has trained. Name one Kung Fu strike, take down or submission Fedor has implemented into his game.

All the top guys bar Machida (who uses point Karate mixed with Muay Thai) use Ju Jitsu, Kick Boxing, Muay Thai, Boxing, Judo (tiny amount, very rare) or Wrestling.

They use everything from every "brand"

There are plenty of holds/locks taken from Aikido (particulary wrist locks) that form an integral part of Jiu Jitsu - and vice versa.

Cro Cop's famous high kicks can be directly related to Kung Fu, Karate, hell even Capoeira.

A lot of core movements in all forms of martial arts are the same movements. The different styles only differ on how they use these movements in conjunction with other movements.