Bit confused with Bowens ?

[ScarySquirrel]

Based on your 'fashion shots' I wouldn't be spending £2,000 on ANYTHING until you've learnt the very basics of photography, eg. composition, exposure, processing, etc.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

 

[martinturner]

Based on your 'fashion shots' I wouldn't be spending £2,000 on ANYTHING until you've learnt the very basics of photography, eg. composition, exposure, processing, etc.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

I would echo the above.

I have never known anyone who is so incredibly obsessed by equipment, yet takes photographs that would suggest a complete lack of understanding. I get the impression you read something and think "right, i've got it" and just tick it off your list. Sadly, it does not work like that and instead of spending the months really learning how it works you instead are just digging a bigger hole for yourself. It seems you instinctively presume the kit is at fault when you are not getting what you expect, so buy better in a shallow attempt to fix the problem.

You would be better off not even thinking about new kit for a year or so and just spend as much time as possible learning how to use what you have. To be honest, it is getting boring for everyone on these forums listening to yet another thread. I for one would like to see you posting some of your work and from a bog standard body/lens setup.

 

[86JR]

I hardly bother posting work on here because i get so many off-topic personal troll comments that make it very hard to actually read anything productive.

Ive noticed if i post a good picture i get 7 replies if best, if i post a bad picture i get 7 pages (50 post per page) of abuse.

 

[robertgilbert86]

It seems like you have too much money. I can help, PM me.

 

[martinturner]

The issue is the endless threads about buying new and very expensive bits of kit, yet your photography is nowhere near the level that commands it. Yeah, we all get a bit carried away at times, but no offence, the amount of threads you start talking about kit is just ridiculous. I mean this in the nicest possible way, you dismiss even the equipment I use as not being good enough (which to be honest gets my back up) yet my photography and your photography are very far apart in terms of ability. Can you see where I am going with this?

If your approach was different you would find that it would be respected a lot more than it is. Even your response above is not useful if anything it is just being spiteful and generalising about everyone here; nobody gives you 'off-topic personal troll comments' unless you have been spiteful. Yes, there may be one who has a snap at you, but thats just the internet for you.

You ask for advice, you get it, you don't listen to it, you then decide to buy new kit, you ask for advice, you get it, you don't listen to it ... yet, amidst this vicious circle you repeatedly say you are given bad advice. I think the issue is you just never really listen and only want to hear what you want to hear. It's always everyone else's fault ... have you considered why everyone is having a pop at you?

Seriously, stop posting endless threads about new kit and keep it more about what you are currently doing. I have also seen a few times where you have been really quite 'blunt' towards other peoples photography and I just don't get this as your photography is very amateur by comparison, again can you not see this is going to get peoples backs up?

 

[Bucket]

I have also seen a few times where you have been really quite 'blunt' towards other peoples photography and I just don't get this as your photography is very amateur by comparison, again can you not see this is going to get peoples backs up?

I agree with everything Martin has said in his post, however this part especially, and for example see this post recently;

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=17644286&postcount=57

I dont find i actually learn anything on any of my modules, in year 2 they were still recommending us to use auto mode on the D70 or "if we really had to" use Auto and bracket in manual mode... my camera doesnt even have an Auto mode, lol.

As a result of this most of my peers still shoot on Auto and when the camera gets it wrong it ruins their shots. Considering they pay £3k a year in tuition fees I find this amazing!

It's not a very good attitude to take towards a course, and you are putting yourself above people rightfully or wrongfully so, which isn't the way to approach a creative art subject.

 

[86JR]

I am just a blunt person... Someone told me to critique others work as part of my learning process, i never did before as i feel that i am below everyone in photographic ability terms. So i do, and then i get critisised for that! So i dont, and then get critiscised for not taking the advice!

I never said your kit was rubbish ? Please tell me where I said that ? You still have better kit than me... im shooting an 18-70 kit lens and i believe your using a tamron 17-50 ?

 

[86JR]

I agree with everything Martin has said in his post, however this part especially, and for example see this post recently;

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=17644286&postcount=57



It's not a very good attitude to take towards a course, and you are putting yourself above people rightfully or wrongfully so, which isn't the way to approach a creative art subject.

So being taught to just use auto mode on a batchelor of arts course that costs £3k a year is acceptable ?

 

[Bucket]

So being taught to just use auto mode on a batchelor of arts course that costs £3k a year is acceptable ?

From that post, you aren't actually on a photography course, you are on a media course.

Not every student will want to do Photography, not every student will have the need to go past that level of ability.

This is what most degrees will do, for example Graphic Design - most GD degrees now do a module of Animation, it will touch on the surface of the packages to do this with, because a lot of people in the studio won't be interested in it.

They give the option however for the students that do, to further this. And will encourage it highly through the student showing the understanding that they CAN go outside the means of what they have touched the surface of.

A degree has to teach to the masses. They 'recommend' to the masses. I'm pretty sure that if your lecturer saw you could use any other mode outside of auto, and that it was a good shot, they would encourage it and say 'great, keep it up'

And infact, MOST University Degree's that are in Photography concentrate on the CREATIVE side, rather than the technical of taking said picture.

You cannot run, before you walk.

 

[Derek W]

What happens when you get to a point where its not good enough and you spend 2k on pro lighting ? Then you have spent £2400 when you could have spent £2000 ?

Ok

I had a sb600 but it stopped working randomly, wouldnt turn on even with a fresh set of batteries, which im pretty peeved about as its expensive to replace!

I hardly bother posting work on here because i get so many off-topic personal troll comments that make it very hard to actually read anything productive.

Ive noticed if i post a good picture i get 7 replies if best, if i post a bad picture i get 7 pages (50 post per page) of abuse.

You cannot run, before you walk.

I've done a brief quote of a few replies in here with the last one being the most important one.

First couple of quotes are to do with the topic, the price of studio lighting £2k + yet you think that replacing / repairing a £200 flash is 'too expensive'. Where is the logic in that? you'd rather spend 10 times the amount on studio lighting than grasp the basics of flash photography with what you have / can replace relatively easily.

The next quote about posting pictures, regardless of skill levels a lot of people have posted good pictures and only got a handful of replies, thats nothing really to get worried about if the replies are positive / advising on how things could be improved on. As for posting bad pictures and getting pages of abuse, you have to look at why these comments have arisen. E.g the fashion shoot photos, with the lack of flash / lighting conditions the majority if not all were soft because of slow shutter speed / too narrow DoF yet you did comment that you liked shot a, b, or c for whatever reason but couldn't see that they were out of focus / soft and generally quite poor.

What bucket said is how you should approach things. I think with our DoF topic you're starting to get the hang of that side of things but you need to think more about composition / subject matter to get a 'better' image and show that you are progressing in your photography.

 

[Columbo]

As Derek said above, I think the comments come from the fact that you are seemingly incapable of taking on-board constructive criticism / advice and have OCD with regards to expensive equipment.

I don't really post much in here but I do read here daily & what I've learned so far has been from practice (which brings understanding) & the very knowledgeable and sound advice offered by & to others in here and on TP. I'm certainly nowhere near the skill level of some the guys in here but I'll get there eventually.

Skill, talent, knowledge, understanding and composition will not be gained by investing thousands in equipment it comes with practice, patience, perseverance & time.

You really should start to listen or your D300 will be wasted investment.

 

[Trick]

You seem to come from a mentality where you need to spend eleventy billion pounds on gear to get good results but this just isn't true

Whaaa...! It's not??!! Burn him!

 

[bigredshark]

There is an extent to which people are being slightly malicious here - if somebody else (maybe me, who knows) had asked this same question then probably they'd have had a better chance of getting a reasonable answer explaining the range and offering some recommendation.

We've all become a little too quick to criticise the guy at times.

I'm not a flash person so I can't offer much advice on that topic, my friendliest advice is to decide what kind of photographer you want to be, you appear at times to be all over the place in terms of your interest.

There is some merit in buying the best gear and then learning *if you have the money* - it stops you blaming the gear at least, but I'm guessing from the fact you're still studying you don't have that cash to be chucking at camera gear and even if you did have £5k then 3 months shooting in africa is going to do more for your skills than a D3x will.

I was lucky enough to be in a position to both buy a semi pro body and pro Nikon glass and go travelling for 6 months a few years ago and I hit the realisation that it was my skill rather than the gear which was holding me back pretty quickly after that. I'm still making the most of my D200 bodies right now - I'd advise you be smarter than me and learn that lesson without spending £6k on gear. And part of that lesson is being aware what you want to do, it doesn't have to be exclusive but focus on something and get good at it...

 

[RedDanDoc]

There is an extent to which people are being slightly malicious here - if somebody else (maybe me, who knows) had asked this same question then probably they'd have had a better chance of getting a reasonable answer explaining the range and offering some recommendation.

We've all become a little too quick to criticise the guy at times.

I'm not a flash person so I can't offer much advice on that topic, my friendliest advice is to decide what kind of photographer you want to be, you appear at times to be all over the place in terms of your interest.

There is some merit in buying the best gear and then learning *if you have the money* - it stops you blaming the gear at least, but I'm guessing from the fact you're still studying you don't have that cash to be chucking at camera gear and even if you did have £5k then 3 months shooting in africa is going to do more for your skills than a D3x will.

I was lucky enough to be in a position to both buy a semi pro body and pro Nikon glass and go travelling for 6 months a few years ago and I hit the realisation that it was my skill rather than the gear which was holding me back pretty quickly after that. I'm still making the most of my D200 bodies right now - I'd advise you be smarter than me and learn that lesson without spending £6k on gear. And part of that lesson is being aware what you want to do, it doesn't have to be exclusive but focus on something and get good at it...

Best Post in this thread !

 

[martinturner]

...

...

I used to stand up for twoblacklines frequently as I felt he was getting a tough time; much like you are now. I too don't condone anyone being picked on unnecessarily. My opinion changed since I have seen how blunt/spiteful he was been with other people and that completely changed my opinion. I also feel that the generalisations made are not fair, many of us have repeatedly tried to help (including myself). I also feel the advice he passes on is shocking, often dismissing kit just because it is middle of the market, well it just gets on my nerves as I for one know you can do great things with an entry level DSLR! Most of all though, I am just tired of seeing yet another wasteful thread in the Photography forums.

.

 

[bigredshark]

I used to stand up for twoblacklines frequently as I felt he was getting a tough time; much like you are now. I too don't condone anyone being picked on unnecessarily. My opinion changed since I have seen how blunt/spiteful he was been with other people and that completely changed my opinion. I also feel that the generalisations made are not fair, many of us have repeatedly tried to help (including myself). I also feel the advice he passes on is shocking, often dismissing kit just because it is middle of the market, well it just gets on my nerves as I for one know you can do great things with an entry level DSLR! Most of all though, I am just tired of seeing yet another wasteful thread in the Photography forums.

.

I was one of the ones giving him a hard time for stuff like the 200/f2 when he was talking about it, he does need to listen to advice but in this case he just asked a question about a product which produced a variety of responses few of which really addressed what he was asking which was a narrow technical question.

He didn't say 'I want this' or 'should I get this?' just 'how does this work?' - I think a lot of the responses were based on it being him asking, if somebody else had asked the same thing I think it would have been different in tone. Anyway, enough and back on topic...

 

[86JR]

I was one of the ones giving him a hard time for stuff like the 200/f2 when he was talking about it, he does need to listen to advice but in this case he just asked a question about a product which produced a variety of responses few of which really addressed what he was asking which was a narrow technical question.

He didn't say 'I want this' or 'should I get this?' just 'how does this work?' - I think a lot of the responses were based on it being him asking, if somebody else had asked the same thing I think it would have been different in tone. Anyway, enough and back on topic...

Thats pretty much how i percieve it and it happens in Motors forum too, though i dont post there.

I have just over £11k in the bank which is great for my circumstances. I love cars and photography but if i post in either for either 11k's worth of photo kit or £11k worth of car, 90% of the thread content will people telling me that im lying because im a 24 year old student because when they were students they didnt have any money.

So its completely pointless asking on here. The 200/2 i was asking about was for sale significantly cheaper than the £3500 rrp now (and was before the vr2 version was out) so was quite a bargain, but im still glad i didnt buy it.

TBH i have listened to the advice on here and in a lot of ways its been the right thing to do, but in some ways life has been harder. I was in a situation the other day where i was trying to take sharp pictures in low light, having listened to people on here i stuck with DX so my camera is only good upto ISO1600, flash wouldnt have produced the right picture, and a D3S would have been very handy.

FWIW i am going travelling in april when i have completed my dissertation / project, i get my final student loan check and im in for 2 weeks after it then i am going abroad with camera gear

Now as for these forums, believe it or not i do listen to people, however there tend to be people who give advice a, people who give advice b, i follow a, then get personally critiscised by both B and A who, over night seem to have changed their "advice" to side with people B, and then you expect me to put up with this personal abuse ?

I used to post up contrasted images up and get abuse for it to the point where i found a guide by chase jarvis and followed it to a tee. I posted this image and got a shed load of abuse from it, telling me how crap i am, how my monitors uncalibrated, how people can take better pics on their iphone, blah blah blah, and yet one of the same people saying this were posting how good this other image (the one i had used as a reference) was.

I have nothing more to say.

 

[86JR]

I used to stand up for twoblacklines frequently as I felt he was getting a tough time; much like you are now. I too don't condone anyone being picked on unnecessarily. My opinion changed since I have seen how blunt/spiteful he was been with other people and that completely changed my opinion. I also feel that the generalisations made are not fair, many of us have repeatedly tried to help (including myself). I also feel the advice he passes on is shocking, often dismissing kit just because it is middle of the market, well it just gets on my nerves as I for one know you can do great things with an entry level DSLR! Most of all though, I am just tired of seeing yet another wasteful thread in the Photography forums.

.

I wasnt giving any advice at all untill someone told me that to get more involved and better at my work, i needed to give advice and critisise other peoples work. As soon as i did that, i got more abuse lol... so i cant win can i ?

 

[martinturner]

I am happy to leave it there, I have made my point and only echoing what the majority feel.

 

[ScarySquirrel]

I'll be honest, the only pictures I actually remember seeing of yours are the 'fashion shoot' ones.

I'd be interested to see some of your other stuff though, do you have a Flickr link or another online gallery? Also interested to see the Chase Jarvis tutorial you followed. Do you have a link?