New-age Celica vs RX8

rypt · 10 Nov 2010 at 21:08

IvanDobskey said:
Mr2 is quite a bit lighter though I'd guess? I think they use this engine in some of the elises too. Ridicule me if I'm wrong

MR2 is a max of 150kg lighter - which is enough to make it not silly underpowered, but yes the 1zz is also used in the Elise, with the 2zz being for the top Elise and then also Exige.

IvanDobskey · 10 Nov 2010 at 21:54

DB_SamX said:
Nope, you're right on both counts.

Fox, out of interest, why do you hate the vvtli engine? Is it the power delivery?

That's a relief then

[TW]Fox · 10 Nov 2010 at 21:59

DB_SamX said:
Fox, out of interest, why do you hate the vvtli engine? Is it the power delivery?

Not enough cylinders, no power until the top end, just doesnt suit me.

Howard · 10 Nov 2010 at 22:00

DB_SamX said:
What are you trying to prove? No one will argue about the Celica's relative low torque, but the maximum is still more than the RX8.

180lb.ft @6800rpm vs 156lb.ft @ 5500 rpm

Torque is hardly the only reason to decide between the 2.

Anyway, OP's not given use, mileage, budget, so hard to help further. Stay clear of the 140 though, the 190 is more fun.

180 lb-ft? Try nearer 130 for the Celica, i.e. less than the RX8

Janesy B · 10 Nov 2010 at 22:03

Howard said:
180 lb-ft? Try nearer 130 for the Celica, i.e. less than the RX8

More like 180nm

Howard · 10 Nov 2010 at 22:04

Yep, mustn't get the two mixed up

Vanilla · 11 Nov 2010 at 01:56

IvanDobskey said:
Another thing to bear in mind about the rx8, they are damned hard to get rid of. I had a hell of a job finding a garage that would take mine off me in part ex. I lost about 4k in a year on the thing! Unless you can stomach the costs I'd stay clear of the rx8.

Not in all cases.

I put mine up on Pistonheads and had an email within a few hours. Guy came up a few days later from Cornwall and bought it cash.

I had lots of interest and it wasn't priced too low at all.

DB_SamX · 11 Nov 2010 at 03:31

Janesy B said:
More like 180nm

My online source had the units wrong; it's not a value I had memorised.

Conanius · 11 Nov 2010 at 06:47

Having driven the 'high power' RX8 in both normal and pro drive trim, as well as a 140 and 190 celica I think I have a reasonable grounding to comment.

RX8 is ok. Its not a fantastic experience to drive, but makes progress at an 'acceptable' level for its class. I found the gearbox to be sloppy and jerky in both models I drove, however it did look very nice with the prodrive pack on it.

The celica is a bit hmm. I get why people aren't so keen on them, but the 190 is a genuine hoot to rag around on a test drive... day to day? I'm not sure. It felt ok power wise, and yes, the trim is jap plastic fantastic, but It doesn't ever claim to rival anything close to a BMW.

Out of the two? I'd go celica 190 just because I prefer the involvement of the engine. It is literally hillarious waiting for the power to come on though... and I ended up with an S2000 !

Smokey26 · 11 Nov 2010 at 12:19

rypt said:
MR2 is a max of 150kg lighter - which is enough to make it not silly underpowered, but yes the 1zz is also used in the Elise, with the 2zz being for the top Elise and then also Exige.

It's a shame Loutus couldn't afford Honda's K20 series, because there better. Also i hear Honda weren't keen because the Elise would eat into S2000 sales. Shame.

DB_SamX · 11 Nov 2010 at 12:20

I also like the S2000, especially the noise it makes, but damn, interior luxury is nonexistant!

350z trumps all 3 then?

Smokey26 · 11 Nov 2010 at 12:23

350Z is nice, but there both totally different.

The S2000 is nice enough inside IMO, what luxuries do you want?

Theres a reason the Z weighs 300Kg more than the S lol.

Crizzy · 11 Nov 2010 at 12:25

Out the two I'd like to think I would go for the RX8, however I would never recommend one to anyone due to the high running costs.

Relentless81 · 11 Nov 2010 at 12:38

Smokey26 said:
It's a shame Loutus couldn't afford Honda's K20 series, because there better. Also i hear Honda weren't keen because the Elise would eat into S2000 sales. Shame.

Define better and better for who?

How do you know Lotus "couldnt afford" it, were you working for either company at the time and have some knowledge that everyone else isnt aware of?

Janesy B · 11 Nov 2010 at 12:42

Smokey26 said:
It's a shame Loutus couldn't afford Honda's K20 series, because there better. Also i hear Honda weren't keen because the Elise would eat into S2000 sales. Shame.

You are full of bum dribble.

ubersonic · 11 Nov 2010 at 13:09

DB_SamX said:
I also like the S2000, especially the noise it makes, but damn, interior luxury is nonexistant!

350z trumps all 3 then?

Not keen on the 350z I remember watching a review where they compared the 370z/350z/300ZX side by side and the 350z was slated for being inferior to the 300zx.

DAIR · 11 Nov 2010 at 13:15

Conanius said:
Having driven the 'high power' RX8 in both normal and pro drive trim, as well as a 140 and 190 celica I think I have a reasonable grounding to comment.

RX8 is ok. Its not a fantastic experience to drive, but makes progress at an 'acceptable' level for its class. I found the gearbox to be sloppy and jerky in both models I drove, however it did look very nice with the prodrive pack on it.

The celica is a bit hmm. I get why people aren't so keen on them, but the 190 is a genuine hoot to rag around on a test drive... day to day? I'm not sure. It felt ok power wise, and yes, the trim is jap plastic fantastic, but It doesn't ever claim to rival anything close to a BMW.

Out of the two? I'd go celica 190 just because I prefer the involvement of the engine. It is literally hillarious waiting for the power to come on though... and I ended up with an S2000 !

Nice.

What are they like to live with?

Smokey26 · 11 Nov 2010 at 13:43

Relentless81 said:
Define better and better for who?

How do you know Lotus "couldnt afford" it, were you working for either company at the time and have some knowledge that everyone else isnt aware of?

Better for the car, better than the toyota engines.

Relentless81 · 11 Nov 2010 at 13:48

Smokey26 said:
Better for the car, better than the toyota engines.

In your personal opinion, the justification you have provided is absolute rubbish and does nothing but prove you are blinkered and thats coming from me who is a massive fan of Honda and VTEC engines

I do find that most bad information that i've noticed over the years on car forums comes from people like you, fanboys who post anything to prove to themselves that what they have is better than the alternatives, its also interesting though as its applied to almost anything, in the GPU forum its nvidia and ATI fanboys doing the exact same thing for example

I'm not going to get into a debate as to which is better as the K series Honda engine is better in some aspects and the Yamaha engine is better in others and its down to personal preference but your reasoning is blatent fanboyism and cannot be taken seriously

rypt · 12 Nov 2010 at 20:00

You have to admit that the K20 (the Type R versions) is the more "performance" oriented engine and responds better to mods than the 2zz (and I'm a Toyota fan). Having said that, the 2zz was designed as a B18 competitor, and it has a number of advantages of its own over the K20.

IIRC Lotus went for the Toyota engine for two reasons, one they wanted a long term deal with a huge automaker for engine supply (and Toyota are larger than Honda), secondly they wanted a cheap-enough and reliable engine ... the 2zz is cheaper as a package than the K20 and also cheaper to run for their customers.

Anyway back on topic, I think I'll go for a Celica 190 ... just need to stop being lazy and go check some out now.