Is Vegetarianism logically inconsistent?

Justin said:
You can't really call yourself a vegetarian if you still eat gelatine though, it's still eating meat like those ones that still eat fish. A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat any meat, including by-products (and that includes wearing leather etc) You're someone that just doesn't like meat.
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Oh, I completely agree, but it's easier to call myself vegetarian for all those people out there who think that it's ok for me to eat chicken or fish just 'cos I don't like meat - somehow that's not classed as meat.

Being known as vegetarian alleviates this somewhat and I've just got into the habit of referring to it in that way. But I agree, eating gelatine etc does make it a little hypocritical to call myself vegetarian.
 
Lupine Lacuna said:
I am a vegan, for a very simple reason.

1. Animals are not property and we have no right to subordinate and dominate for our own ends.

Therefore, I refuse to eat eggs and dairy since the latter involves life long enslavement and the former involves killing every male chick (approx half of all chicks).

Therefore I dont see how anyone can be a vegetarian for ethical reasons.
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Quite simply really, slavery (which the animals probably couldn't care less about) is not as bad as killing them. You also seem to be assuming that everyone buys eggs from places that do that when in fact a lot of people raise chickens of their own.

Flare said:
Why can animals eat meat but so many people whinge about humans eating meat?
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Probably because the former is a necessity whereas the latter is a pleasure.
 
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fullmetaltony said:
Do they really? I was looking into Kosher the other day because of work (and the fact I had no clue whatsoever what it was about) and that was saying that for meat to be kosher the animal had to be slaughtered instantly so it didn't feel a thing???
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Since the Bible prohibits eating meat from animals dying from natural causes, and all animals killed by beasts, traditional Jewish thought has expressed the view that all meat must come from animals which have been slaughtered according to Jewish law. These strict guidelines require that the animal is killed by a single cut across the throat to a precise depth, severing both carotid arteries, both jugular veins, both vagus nerves, the trachea and the esophagus, no higher than the epiglottis and no lower than where cilia begin inside the trachea, causing the animal to bleed to death. Orthodox Jews argue that this ensures the animal dies instantly without unnecessary suffering, but many animal rights activists view the process as cruel, arguing that the animal may not lose consciousness immediately, and activists have called for it to be banned

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_foods
 
Justin said:
You can't really call yourself a vegetarian if you still eat gelatine though, it's still eating meat like those ones that still eat fish. A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat any meat, including by-products (and that includes wearing leather etc) You're someone that just doesn't like meat.
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That's your definition, which may not be universal.

OED says this:

noun
a person who does not eat meat or fish, and sometimes other animal products, especially for moral, religious, or health reasons
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Lupine Lacuna said:
I am not interested here in the pros and cons of meat eating (though I highly encourage viewing the film 'Earthlings' which is available on their website online, and also a trailer), my question is instead to vegetarians who chose not to eat meat because they believe you should not kill animals, and to ask, why do you eat eggs and diary (since both involve killing).
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Shame. You're actually making a fair point, and being pretty respectful about it too, but all the indignant meat-eaters have decided to start brow-beating you for daring to have ethics. I hope the irony of them telling you not to preach your beliefs (even though you aren't) isn't lost on them.

Justin said:
You can't really call yourself a vegetarian if you still eat gelatine though, it's still eating meat like those ones that still eat fish. A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat any meat, including by-products (and that includes wearing leather etc) You're someone that just doesn't like meat.
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No, that's a vegan. The OP was basically saying the same as you.
 
LawfordLass said:
Since the Bible prohibits eating meat from animals dying from natural causes, and all animals killed by beasts, traditional Jewish thought has expressed the view that all meat must come from animals which have been slaughtered according to Jewish law. These strict guidelines require that the animal is killed by a single cut across the throat to a precise depth, severing both carotid arteries, both jugular veins, both vagus nerves, the trachea and the esophagus, no higher than the epiglottis and no lower than where cilia begin inside the trachea, causing the animal to bleed to death. Orthodox Jews argue that this ensures the animal dies instantly without unnecessary suffering, but many animal rights activists view the process as cruel, arguing that the animal may not lose consciousness immediately, and activists have called for it to be banned

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_foods
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Thanks for that, what a surprise that the regulatory website for Kosher certification painted the "instant death" picture :rolleyes:
 
Weebull said:
No, that's a vegan. The OP was basically saying the same as you.
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no, he has a point - most vegetarians would avoid gelatine certainly. The leather thing is perhaps pushing the point, but the bit about eating animal by-products is quite universally acknowledged is being a veggie "thing"
 
fullmetaltony said:
Thanks for that, what a surprise that the regulatory website for Kosher certification painted the "instant death" picture :rolleyes:
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From my understanding it is a highly debated concept. A lot of people on both sides of the fence. Personally (and I emphasise, personally) I cannot see how being drained of blood can possibly be an instant death - quick, certainly due to the severing of major arteries, but not instant.
 
Meat industry as a whole is the number one destructive pollutant on this earth, that is why I choice not to eat meat, I know that I obviously partake in other activities that have an indirect negative effect on the earth or cause pollution, but being that the meat industry is the number one contributor and at the same time very easy to give up without having any negative effects on your life, (as long as you eat a varied balanced vegetarian diet), then I see no reason why anyone in the civilised world should need to eat meat.
 
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Weebull said:
No, that's a vegan. The OP was basically saying the same as you.
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By by-products I meant gelatine, rennet etc not milk and eggs which are products. (by-products = any non-meat product, eg beaks, feet, feathers, intestines, etc.)

Burnsy2023 said:
That's your definition, which may not be universal.

OED says this:
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As said above, my definition of product and by-products are different things. Where OED says "and sometimes other products" I see that as being eggs and milk.
 
Lupine Lacuna said:
I am a vegan, for a very simple reason.

1. Animals are not property and we have no right to subordinate and dominate for our own ends.

Therefore, I refuse to eat eggs and dairy since the latter involves life long enslavement and the former involves killing every male chick (approx half of all chicks).


Thanks
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If you find a cow which has lived a full, happy life in a meadow, dead of natural (but safe) causes, could you eat it then? It would not have been subordinated or dominated.
 
lowrider007 said:
Meat industry as a whole is the number one destructive pollutant on this earth, that is why I choice not to eat meat, I know that I obviously partake in other activities that have an indirect negative effect on the earth or cause pollution, but being that the meat industry is the number one contributor and at the same time very easy to give up without having any negative effects on your life as long as you continue to eat a varied balanced vegetarian diet then I see no reason why anyone in the civilised world should need to eat meat.
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Because it's your own opinion that it causes YOU no negative effect on YOUR life. Without meat, my life would be dramatically effected in a negative way as I love meat, food and cooking.
Likewise, without a cheese sandwich and coffee with milk in it my life would be negatively effected as these are amongst my favourite things.
I need to eat meat because it brings me great amounts of pleasure which I don't wish to be devoid of.

Justin, could you address my point a few posts above as I'm interested in what vegetarians think about that as I've never heard an argument like it before. It just popped up in my head.
 
Ahleckz said:
Justin, could you address my point a few posts above as I'm interested in what vegetarians think about that as I've never heard an argument like it before. It just popped up in my head.
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Yes.

Ahleckz said:
Couldn't this be expanded to the extent where you couldn't eat products that had been treated with animal manure which is by-product of the meat industry?
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Manure isn't a by-product of the meat industry, it isn't something that's left over after the animal has been killed and processed like gelatine, skin etc is it?

I wouldn't say a vegan could eat veg grown in manure if they were strict though, as it's using a product that has come from an animal. That's the way I see it anyway.
 
I became a vegetarian mainly because of allocation of resources. Since we grow enough crops to feed the world three times over, and yet most of them go into feeding cattle for food in horrendous conditions and a ton of energy is lost by adding another level to the food chain. If it leaves 75% of the worlds population in poverty and causes a lot of damage to the environment due to transportation, increased production and how much gas the animals themselves give off then i can't continue to eat meat with a clear conscience, it's only food after all, and i've found it easy enough to make up what nutritional values i was getting from meat - lost a bit of weight too.

I don't have that much morally against the consumption of meat, i would eat it again occasionally if it could be distributed equally but i still don't think there should be animals that are essentially born to die. Cows for milk and chickens for eggs are fine by me if they're well looked after since it's a lot more efficient and you're actually helping the animal out here (well, at least in the case of the former) rather than hurting it.

Anyway, that's my 2p on the matter...
 
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