Is Vegetarianism logically inconsistent?

I didn't see it in honesty but will provide my thoughts on what you've said.

The fact there is more food than the world needs does not stop the fact there are people starving round the globe and loads of food is going to waste. This happens with vegetables as well as meat.

The transportation of meat products (be that cattle or steaks) can't surely have that big an effect on pollution? Removing meat from everyone's diets (were it possible to just make everyone a vegetarian at the flick of a switch) would just massively increase the transportation of vegetables to similar end results to what is currently happening would it not?
About all you'd gain would be less methane etc. from animals as there would be less of them.

I guess, just with plants you have to transport them somewhere to convert them into feed, then transport them to wherever the cattle are kept, then transport the cattle around the world. Would it not be far better to simply transport the plants all around the world?
 
I agree, meat as part of a healthy diet can be good for you as well, and tasty, but my point is it's not needed for you to live a healthy life, that being the case it boils down to taste, just because people love the taste of meat we have the Amazon Rain forest being chopped down by hundreds of acres everyday for soya crops for animal feed, pollution by an unprecedented level, people over indulging in meat causing heart disease at an also unprecedented level, and we are not even touching on animal cruelty yet, the list goes on.

All because people enjoy the taste of meat, I just don't see any real beneficial reasons for it on a 'mass scale', I understand that in some places it still may be a more source-able food which is understandable, I don't condemn that at all, but in a society where we can easily grow vegetables and survive healthy on a vegetarian diet I just don't see the point other than to save jobs and make money obviously.

I agree that we don't need meat to maintain our healthy (otherwise all non meat eaters would be dead :p) but I don't see it as being as bad as you say.

On the other end of the scale though you have very unhealthy vegetarians because they don't understand how to maintain their health well with 'just' vegetables.

As for Soya...well...a lot of vegetarian friendly products contain this instead of milk, so by cutting the number of people eating meat and products produced via cattle etc. would still increase the need for soya. ;)
I do disagree with the cutting down of the rain forests for the use as farm land, be it for soya, corn, etc.

I guess, just with plants you have to transport them somewhere to convert them into feed, then transport them to wherever the cattle are kept, then transport the cattle around the world. Would it not be far better to simply transport the plants all around the world?

Quite possibly, but my point was more that we'd require more vegetables to feed the world (due to it going off etc. the sheer amount of food produced does not mean it can magically feed everyone, people always buy more than they need) and so transportation of the vegetables would increase somewhat.
 
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Well, I assume I was missing more than just the killing chicks thing if the OP has been banned! I was quite enjoying the debate personally, I thought it quite an intelligent thread! Ah well :)
 
Well, I assume I was missing more than just the killing chicks thing if the OP has been banned! I was quite enjoying the debate personally, I thought it quite an intelligent thread! Ah well :)

Indeed, as was I, still, there are plenty of sensible people here that are/have been continuing the/a debate. :)
 
Indeed, as was I, still, there are plenty of sensible people here that are/have been continuing the/a debate. :)

Agreed :) I wasn't insinuating that the thread should end just 'cos the OP is no longer with us. Just that I thought this particular thread was a perfectly legitimate one which has raised a good discussion :)
 
Indeed, looking back over all their posts i really fail to see how any sort of punishment was justified?

I infer from Ziggy's post that the OP was a returnee having previously been banned.

Anyhow - in reference to the chicks being killed during the egg laying process due to them not being female. That doesn't really put me personally off eating eggs at all.

Harsh perhaps, but I do feel that if people continually place restrictions on their diet due to ethical issues, they could end up subsisting on dust! The comment above about Fruitarianism may have been meant tongue in cheek, but there is a real danger that some people could be heading this way!
 
1. Animals are not property and we have no right to subordinate and dominate for our own ends.

Therefore I dont see how anyone can be a vegetarian for ethical reasons.

Using your logic going 1 step further.

1. Living organisms are not property and we have no right to subordinate and dominate for our own ends.

Therefore i dont see how anyone can be a vegan for 'ethical' reasons.
 
Anyhow - in reference to the chicks being killed during the egg laying process due to them not being female. That doesn't really put me personally off eating eggs at all.

I was intrigued as to how the OP suggests you sex eggs (Work out if they are male or female) as from the way they were saying it, eggs are destroyed before they hatch...which is impossible to sex them as far as I'm concerned....unless they have some special machines for this.

As far as I was aware it is done when they have hatched and are young chicks, nothing to do with the egg laying process at all.
 
I am a vegan, for a very simple reason.

1. Animals are not property and we have no right to subordinate and dominate for our own ends.

Therefore, I refuse to eat eggs and dairy since the latter involves life long enslavement and the former involves killing every male chick (approx half of all chicks).

Therefore I dont see how anyone can be a vegetarian for ethical reasons.

I'm interested to see how all your vegetarians out there view it, why are you a vegetarian?

Thanks


Well, science has shown that plants feel and think (there are even group reactions by whole families of plants and trees when one of them gets infected by a parasite within the nearby area), albeit without a similar-to-ours-brain function or behaviour. In any case it is beyond doubt that they are living organisms. So in that situation I would consider eating plants an act that involves killing plants, moreover plants which are not property as well. Going by your argument nothing in nature is property anyway.

Therefore, perhaps you shouldn't be eating plants as well, or is it that you are ethically conscious when it squeals and bleeds?
 
I was intrigued as to how the OP suggests you sex eggs (Work out if they are male or female) as from the way they were saying it, eggs are destroyed before they hatch...which is impossible to sex them as far as I'm concerned....unless they have some special machines for this.

As far as I was aware it is done when they have hatched and are young chicks, nothing to do with the egg laying process at all.

Hmm, you have a point there. You would imagine that the two processes are totally separate in that case. On one hand the production of fertilised and then hatched eggs to produce potential egg layers. On the other hand, the actual process of laying eggs in which they are not fertilised in the first place (I guess?)

I would look it up, but I don't really have the time right now. I would have to say though that I think you're right - perhaps male chicks do get gassed, but not as part of the egg laying process when those eggs are destined for human consumption.
 
Compared to vegetarians/vegans who have a much harder time of having a balanced diet and really have to watch and learn what to eat, to insure nutritional balance.

That's a common misconception, a healthy vegetarian diet is easy, the only thing vegetables don't have is B12 which is in fortified cereals and dairy products or available as a supplement.
 
That's a common misconception, a healthy vegetarian diet is easy, the only thing vegetables don't have is B12 which is in fortified cereals and dairy products or available as a supplement.

Indeed, not to mention the fact that i lost about half a stone in the first month of me becoming a vegetarian, not changing anything about my lifestyle apart from that.
 
Not really. Most people do not understand diet. It is not easy being a vegetarian until you do a lot of learning.
You just have to look at vegetarians and a high percentage have things like cracked tongues which is a deficiency.

what I was saying is he cant used things like heart problems as a reason for not eating meat.
 
That's a common misconception, a healthy vegetarian diet is easy, the only thing vegetables don't have is B12 which is in fortified cereals and dairy products or available as a supplement.

Absolutely agree - the only thing I did struggle with to begin was iron levels, but that was easily remedied by adding broccoli, spinach and chick peas to my diet. I enjoy a great and varied diet and in fact quite often eat the same as my husband, but with a veggie meat alternative (quorn for example) - no problem :)
 
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