Cabinet Applauds Smokescreen !!!

VFM Addict said:
So why were they so excited? C'mon. I'm not saying they engineered it. I'm just saying they couldn't believe their 'kin luck.
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There is no luck involved, they were just happy to hear the news. You're just using as an excuse to moan about cuts. They're not trying to create a feel good factor, you just trying to create a feel bad factor.

Get on your bike with your moaning. :p
 
I see the real danger as the general public mindset is anything the current government does, no matter how bad, good, or plain daft, no matter how devastating it is to families, will be seen as a 'side effect of Labour'.

I reckon if the government said 'we need to shoot 1 unemployed person in 5, it's necessary because of evil Labour's spending' some people would be screaming 'DAMN GB FOR MAKING THIS UNAVOIDABLE. Go on then Tories, bless ya' all with your 'tough but necessary decisions'' ...

Is it possible for the tories to make mistakes whilst clearing up the debt? Or do they get an absolute green-card to do anything, and the more wrong it is, the more evil GB actually was ...?
 
Cheer up man !!

Celebrate the fact that we have a future king who has RAF wings, can fly planes and helicopters and knows how to use a gun and hand grenades.

Also celebrate that the Prince William bone china cup of hop and glory will soon be imported from the Szechuan province for 2.99 retail to celebrate the impending marriage, not to mention those china plates that hang on the wall with two beaming love birds smiling down on you.

I personally wish them a) well and b) that any china cup released shows Kate Middleton nude when hot tea is poured in.

RULE BRITANNIA. MARMLADE AND JAM. FIVE FIRECRACKERS UP YOUR BACKSIDE. BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG !
 
VFM Addict said:
David Cameron just said the Cabinet cheered and banged the table when news of the Royal Wedding came out today. I bet they did !!!

What a terrific smokescreen taking the focus of them for the next 12 months. I bet they couldn't believe their luck. Something to create a false, Feel Good Factor, while they cause millions to be made redundant and pickpocket the rest of us. :mad:
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for somebody who appears to be addicted to obtaining value for money, you appear to be suggesting we spend our way out of debt, and provide the country with very poor value for money.

Apt username




Not.
 
VFM Addict said:
David Cameron just said the Cabinet cheered and banged the table when news of the Royal Wedding came out today. I bet they did !!!

What a terrific smokescreen taking the focus of them for the next 12 months. I bet they couldn't believe their luck. Something to create a false, Feel Good Factor, while they cause millions to be made redundant and pickpocket the rest of us. :mad:
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Get over it. Seriously.
 
Ahhh, a Royal Wedding, I'm glad we won't have to pay for all this with all the cut-back's and..oh, wait....
 
I'm not one for conspiracies, and don't think this really constitutes one, but wasn't charles and diana's wedding at bit of a political/economic low time?
looking at wiki it was well into the early 80's recession.
 
Abraham said:
wasn't charles and diana's wedding at bit of a political/economic low time?
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dunno about a political/economic low time, but the day after Charles & Di's wedding i had a motorcycle accident & spent the next 6 weeks in plaster, so it was certainly a personal low time :p
 
I am pretty staggered how many people here find debate impossible or don't read the earlier posts before commenting. I stated clearly that I was not saying this was engineered and yet several later posters suggested I was....:rolleyes:

Equally I am amazed that some folks think that everyone who earns £50K works hard. I have known and I have fired over the years an awful lot of chaps who did not. Equally I've fired folks earning very little for exactly the same reason.

It is my experience that those who rise to higher rank are often more capable of presenting the illusion of work than those at lower grades. Its very easy to shift a lot of paper and appear busy in an office but if you're a cleaner and you don't move any of the dirt it is recognised far more easily.

All I am saying is that whenever I have had to go into a company and slash costs I've typically found it easier to find lazy b's that aren't worth their salary in middle management than finding the same on the shopfloor.

The reality is that the current bunch IMHO are more Marketeers / Spinners than any I have ever seen including the last lot. Hardly surprising when so many of the current Cabinet come from PR or similar disciplines.

Now I ask again - Who thinks that the Cabinet cheered and banged the table, as DC said they did, simply because they were so excited for Wills and Kate?
 
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VFM Addict said:
I am pretty staggered how many people here find debate impossible or don't read the earlier posts before commenting. I stated clearly that I was not saying this was engineered and yet several later posters suggested I was....:rolleyes:

Equally I am amazed that some folks think that everyone who earns £50K works hard. I have known and I have fired over the years an awful lot of chaps who did not. Equally I've fired folks earning very little for exactly the same reason.

It is my experience that those who rise to higher rank are often more capable of presenting the illusion of work than those at lower grades. Its very easy to shift a lot of paper and appear busy in an office but if you're a cleaner and you don't move any of the dirt it is recognised far more easily.

All I am saying is that whenever I have had to go into a company and slash costs I've typically found it easier to find lazy b's that aren't worth their salary in middle management than finding the same on the shopfloor.

The reality is that the current bunch IMHO are more Marketeers / Spinners than any I have ever seen including the last lot. Hardly surprising when so many of the current Cabinet come from PR or similar disciplines.

Now I ask again - Who thinks that the Cabinet cheered and banged the table, as DC said they did, simply because they were so excited for Wills and Kate?
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I do, you are just a cynical old so and so, who sees the bad in everything going by that mostly unsubstantiated rant.
 
VFM Addict said:
Really? :D:D:D:D Perhaps you could explain yourself? :rolleyes:

EDIT - You really should learn to edit a bit faster.
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Seems pretty straight forward really. You state that it isn't engineered and yet later you insinuate that was exactly what was happening.

You state that you have equally found those earning £50k can be as lazy as those earning far less. Yet you continue to say that those earning more are more likely to be lazy than those on the shop floor. Make your mind up.

I find it amusing that you complain about redundancies and making people unemployed, when from your description of your experience, you are the headsman. In my experience it is those kind of useless consultants that are lazy and not value for money, giving advice that in most cases is simply common sense to the average person. (my first change in my job was to fire all the consultants and similar hangers on, we saved a fortune and was able to finance acquisitions which in turn boosted turnover and profitability.)

The actually reality is that the announcement of the Prince's engagement is totally unrelated to whatever news-stories you insinuated are being covered up and that the congratulations shown in the House of Commons was in all likelihood sincere and not some cynical unsubstantiated conspiracy as you so underhandedly suggest.
 
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Castiel said:
Seems pretty straight forward really. You state that it isn't engineered and yet later you insinuate that was exactly what was happening.

You state that you have equally found those earning £50k can be as lazy as those earning far less. Yet you continue to say that those earning more are more likely to be lazy than those on the shop floor. Make your mind up.

I find it amusing that you complain about redundancies and making people unemployed, when from your description of your experience, you are the headsman. In my experience it is those kind of useless consultants that are lazy and not value for money, giving advice that in most cases is simply common sense to the average person. (my first change in my job was to fire all the consultants and similar hangers on, we saved a fortune and was able to finance acquisitions which in turn boosted turnover and profitability.)

The actually reality is that the announcement of the Prince's engagement is totally unrelated to whatever news-stories you insinuated are being covered up and that the congratulations shown in the House of Commons was in all likelihood sincere and not some cynical unsubstantiated conspiracy as you so underhandedly suggest.
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First, I plainly did not say or infer that it was a conspiracy or engineered. I actually said from the outset that I believed the Cabinet couldn't believe their 'kin luck. That obviously suggests that they were thinking about how they could take advantage of it now that it has happened rather than having caused it to happen.

Secondly, I did not say those earning £50K are more likely to be lazy. I said they are typically more capable of covering it up if they were lazy, which is a very different thing. Laziness exists at all levels and it is insanity to think that because someone earns £50K that they work or are worth £50K. Also find one of the £50K dead-woods and it saves three times as much as finding a £17K dead-wood. There is also the old adage that people are promoted to their level of incompetence and it has much more than a grain of truth in it. Very, very few folks are honest enough to say, "I'm not up to this please demote me back and drop my salary back." Equally, some believe that they've done the work getting to where they are and they've earned the right now to do next to nothing.

So, Yes, I do complain about redundancies where they may occur while other's are still earning £50K just to deliver an illusion of work. It just doesn't make moral or financial sense, does it?

You are correct about consultants in the main. However, when it comes to the axe, only external consultants have true objectivity and are not influenced by interpersonal relationships which have possibly built up over years. I have had provisional lists given to me that once I evaluated them it was clear that the only possible reason that X could not initially be on it was personal biases / relationships. All too often it is the people at the bottom who are earmarked for redundancy not because it made business sense but because they were remote emotionally from those taking the decisions.

I am very surprised, given that you are a member of your company's board, that you disagree that middle managers are the most capable of masking inactivity, etc. I have rarely if ever met a Director of a medium sized organisation who disagrees with such. I presume your forum profile is correct and that you are as you state there Operations Director of your company, a board position, and not Director of Operations, a non-board, middle management position? Wouldn't want to think that you're a spinner defending spinners would we.;):D
 
VFM Addict said:
First, I plainly did not say or infer that it was a conspiracy or engineered. I actually said from the outset that I believed the Cabinet couldn't believe their 'kin luck. That obviously suggests that they were thinking about how they could take advantage of it now that it has happened rather than having caused it to happen.
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Your OP insinuates that their first thought and reason for cheering the news of the Engagement was that they now had a ready made smokescreen and was not genuine. Something that is cynical and in all likelihood just based on your own mindset rather than any real truth.

VFM Addict said:
Secondly, I did not say those earning £50K are more likely to be lazy. I said they are typically more capable of covering it up if they were lazy, which is a very different thing. Laziness exists at all levels and it is insanity to think that because someone earns £50K that they work or are worth £50K. Also find one of the £50K dead-woods and it saves three times as much as finding a £17K dead-wood. There is also the old adage that people are promoted to their level of incompetence and it has much more than a grain of truth in it. Very, very few folks are honest enough to say, "I'm not up to this please demote me back and drop my salary back." Equally, some believe that they've done the work getting to where they are and they've earned the right now to do next to nothing.
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I did not suggest that someone's salary is indicative of their work ethic, you however seem to be doing just that however much you try to hide it under layers of hyperbole.

VFM Addict said:
So, Yes, I do complain about redundancies where they may occur while other's are still earning £50K just to deliver an illusion of work. It just doesn't make moral or financial sense, does it?
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No it does not, yet you were not complaining about wastage and inefficiency, but about redundancies in general and tax rises.

VFM Addict said:
You are correct about consultants in the main. However, when it comes to the axe, only external consultants have true objectivity and are not influenced by interpersonal relationships which have possibly built up over years. I have had provisional lists given to me that once I evaluated them it was clear that the only possible reason that X could not initially be on it was personal biases / relationships. All too often it is the people at the bottom who are earmarked for redundancy not because it made business sense but because they were remote emotionally from those taking the decisions.
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I disagree, I have found in my experience that personal relationships at those kind of levels can be highly advantageous to the business (not always I agree) and when it comes to middle management most decisions about downsizing can made a board level and passed to HR for assessment. Neither needs external consultants. It is in fact my Job to do this (among other things) and I do it well without rancour or favouritism.

VFM Addict said:
I am very surprised, given that you are a member of your company's board, that you disagree that middle managers are the most capable of masking inactivity, etc. I have rarely if ever met a Director of a medium sized organisation who disagrees with such. I presume your forum profile is correct and that you are as you state there Operations Director of your company, a board position, and not Director of Operations, a non-board, middle management position? Wouldn't want to think that you're a spinner defending spinners would we.;):D
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Like I said, I do not disagree that middle managers are able to hide the fact that they do little (it seems to be my primary occupation at the moment to ferret them out), I am saying that the way in which you put forward your argument is a little contradictory and does insinuate that the further up the ladder you go, the easier it is to do very little. In my experience that is not the case.

And my Profile is correct, I am the Operations Director and not a director of operations, which in my company are two very different things. There is only one of me and there are several of them. (several less since I've been here, I might add);)
 
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