F1 2013 - The begining of the end

750bhp from a 1.6 turbo engine? How can anyone hate that? It's awesome!


Plus 160KW of KERS is basically going to turn F1 into real life Fast and Furious. When Hamilton presses that little button on his steering wheel everything will instantly go fuzzy and he'll go so fast that his floor will drop out!
 
Alex_6n2 said:
750bhp from a 1.6 turbo engine? How can anyone hate that? It's awesome!


Plus 160KW of KERS is basically going to turn F1 into real life Fast and Furious. When Hamilton presses that little button on his steering wheel everything will instantly go fuzzy and he'll go so fast that his floor will drop out!
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600 from engine, 150bhp from kers or that's how I read it.

How can I hate it, simply because it might as well be a standardised engine. F1 is about technology and inventions. It's getting less and less every year. F1 cars also don;t have enough BHP at the moment as it is, they have far to much grip and far to little BHP.
 
F1 needs to stay relevant. I don't agree with all of this hippy, eco rubbish - but this is the way road cars seem to be going. If F1 can develop technology that can help get more power out of new energy sources, then I am all for it.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
F1 needs to stay relevant. I don't agree with all of this hippy, eco rubbish - but this is the way road cars seem to be going. If F1 can develop technology that can help get more power out of new energy sources, then I am all for it.
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How can they do that when they aren't allowed to devlop.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Surely they can develop the engine initially? Plus they always find holes in the rulebook to "address power issues".
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Lited to bhp, revs, configuration, #of cylindas, capacity, turbo etc, not much they can change and these rules aren't flexible like some. KERS has a similar massive list.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Lited to bhp, revs, configuration, #of cylindas, capacity, turbo etc, not much they can change and these rules aren't flexible like some. KERS has a similar massive list.
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I suspect that will change by the time they begin implementation - I can't see FOTA going along with such restrictions. Hopefully they make aero rules more flexible to allow some kind of development race between the teams. One thing is for sure, F1 cars are going to change dramatically over the next decade.
 
The reason for all the limits is that we can't afford the R&D any more. Maybe you haven't noticed, but firstly the world is skint and secondly it costs a lot more to do stuff now than it used to. Long gone are the days when you could design a competitive a car and engine on the back of a few sponsorship deals.
 
clv101 said:
The reason for all the limits is that we can't afford the R&D any more. Maybe you haven't noticed, but firstly the world is skint and secondly it costs a lot more to do stuff now than it used to. Long gone are the days when you could design a competitive a car and engine on the back of a few sponsorship deals.
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No, the problem is a combination of the FIA changing the goalposts all the time and the ingenuity of the teams finding loopholes in the rules. There is plenty of money in F1 - have you not seen the number of people employed by the teams? Many of whom are really not needed.

On your point of sponsorship, what damaged F1 was the tobacco pullout.
 
Clarkey said:
It isn't, 20 years ago they had MUCH more power out of smaller engines. 600hp is pathetic for an F1 car :/
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very much agree, 600bhp is crap, you will end up with the gp2 cars being faster at this rate!

everyone saying 600bhp from a 1.6 is amazing, its not at all.

look at the 1.6 vtec engine if you want to see that sort of power in a honda civic driving around the US.


for example

not even DOHC and doable, these engines are gonna be a walk in the park for the manufactures
 
clv101 said:
The reason for all the limits is that we can't afford the R&D any more. Maybe you haven't noticed, but firstly the world is skint and secondly it costs a lot more to do stuff now than it used to. Long gone are the days when you could design a competitive a car and engine on the back of a few sponsorship deals.
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rubbish, they have a budget and can spend it how they see best. It only costs huge amounts for rapid devlopment. There budgets aren't small and can go a very long way. They would save millions from aero design that may make 0.005secs, but spend that same amount on kers devlopment that could make 0.2 diffrence. I also believe they would get more sponsors companys are and want to devlop thingd like kers and fuel efficient engines, electrical storage and alternative enegies. I fully support introducing green technologies to keep f1 relevent but is pointless with the restrictions.i feel they are using money as an excuse to fudementally change f1. If there budget only alliws 10million for engine devlopment then they have to use it wisely, no reason to ban it.

Fia just want 24cars that run within a few tenths of each other. We have always had a few fast teams, average teams and back markers.
 
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CaptainRAVE said:
Surely they can develop the engine initially? Plus they always find holes in the rulebook to "address power issues".
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What? Like the current engines? lol.

They will give them all a set of blueprints to all build the same engine, they all will, then they will be frozen for 5 years, with the small exceptions allowed to tweak the best engines to slow them down so they dont have a performance advantage over the rest, and then everyone forgets about them.

The FIA have openly stated that they would like a single engine/drivetrain setup in F1 (it was one of the drivers behind the planned breakaway last year wasnt it?), but they didnt get it that time. So instead they ensured that only the teams who signed with Cosworth would be considered for new teams on the grid, giving them nearly 50% grid coverage with the same engine. But then that didnt work as the teams proved to either be a bit poo, or go off and sign deals with other companies (Lotus/Renault). So, the next tactic is to roll out this new cake that has "green" and "cost saving" icing all over it, and sprinklings of "loads of new manufacturers will join in", when in actual fact underneith is just another single engine series ploy...

Reading into this a bit more though... there are some interesting names on the "opposed to this idea" list.. including Bernie Ecclestone, who owns the rights to a certain "GP1" series name... and Ferrari and Mercedes, big players in the sport with lots of engine customers who have before supported a breakaway series...

Chances of us all sitting down in March 2013 to watch the opening race of the GP1 World Championship?
 
clv101 said:
The reason for all the limits is that we can't afford the R&D any more. Maybe you haven't noticed, but firstly the world is skint and secondly it costs a lot more to do stuff now than it used to. Long gone are the days when you could design a competitive a car and engine on the back of a few sponsorship deals.
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That's nonsense though, development costs are potentially coming down due to advancements in computer power allowing for ever more complex simulations that mean that less real life testing is going to be needed potentially.

Besides, let teams spend however much they can afford ..
 
turbotoaster said:
look at the 1.6 vtec engine if you want to see that sort of power in a honda civic driving around the US.


for example

not even DOHC and doable, these engines are gonna be a walk in the park for the manufactures
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... those cars are NOT driveable, F1 cars will have turbos that come on song at a decent low enough RPM

But I agree, 600hp turbo from a 1.6L I4 turbo is just easy, you can make 1000hp from a 1.5L engine if you are clever and blend the boundaries between engine and turbine.
 
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The real difference in engine would be these new turbo ones would have to last much longer compared to previous turbo era where they had a new engine per session brings atleast 7 new engines per weekend!

Same with comparing them to road cars of similar capacity its impossible to run them at the required power, revs and heat to last 4 or more whole weekends from first practice to race. To compare a powerful road engine which might see the rev limter on odd occasion will never have seen milage, loads nor stresses a race engine does.
 
I think the 10,000 RPM limit probably comes from the FIA realising that, even with their rose tinted view of the world, nobody will be able to make a 1.6l Turbo engine do 18,000 RPM and last 4 race weekends...
 
Really don't see the issue. Grand Prix racing has been through countless incarnations and will continue to evolve over time. F1 cars were 1.5 litre NA engines in the mid sixties. People have such short memories.
 
Ok, but what about the fact that the new specification engine rules designed to bring in new manufacturers may actually push them all away as the engines will be so strictly specified and competition between manufacturers will not be possible?

Would you be happy to see F1 with a single engine supplier?
 
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