Who here believes in UFO'S?

[b.cummins]

Quite, so you agree that the possibility of things that we currently have no empirical evidence of and currently have no practical scientific way of testing may still exist, because our current limited knowledge of the Universe doesn't effectively negate those hypotheses?

I love this argument. It occurred to me a long time ago that it's effectively not possible to reason the concept of atheism that some people hold. The empirical problem is that if a rationalist can think something into existence, you can cite there is no evidence for it, but from a rationalist point of view once such a concept materialises, you completely lose your ability to reason it out of existence (the Descartes problem). This is why you can only ascribe to disbelief in a concept. No one can KNOW there is no God, they can only posit they don't believe there is one. It's exactly the same with a UFO, the second someone conceptually imagined the possibility of one, there is now no way we can ever disprove the notion, whilst we are yet to prove it.

I think we could well have already seen them, but the evidence would have to be utterly unequivocal for it to be held as a conviction that they exist. I feel there's nothing wrong with believing in UFOs.

I for one, for mainly sentimental reasons, hold a belief that there must be extra-terrestial life. I don't know what form it make take or if it's capable of space travel, but my sci-fi fuelled imagination would like to believe it's possible so I think I just hold the conviction in an imaginative capacity.

 

[GordyR]

I haven't read the whole thread but my views on this are simple.... Go with the most likely scenario.

- Given the sheer size and vastness of the known universe it would be highly improbable for life to exist only on Earth.

- Therefore statistically speaking it is very likely, almost to the point of certainty that there is life of some form out there elsewhere, in fact it is quite probable that the universe is actually teeming with life.

- It stands to reason that some of this life is at least as intelligent as we are.

- Are there species out there capable of interstellar travel? Given the age of the universe I would say it is quite likely that there are several species out there capable of this.

- Have they visited us? Highly unlikely in my opinion but possible.

Do I have any evidence or hard fact with which to base these conclusions on? No... These conclusions are simply drawn from rationalism and an exercise in probability.

 

[MooMoo444]

With the sheer size of the universe, its statistically impossible for us to be alone. They're out there, but the distance could be so vast it wont be for hundreds of years before we find out.

Lets just hope the first ones we meet arent the 'We've come to take your planet and your resources, prepare to die' kind.

 

[Bulldog14]

To me if I add it all up from sources like current knowledge, numerous documentaries, and a healthy dose of Sci-Fi, I suspect that the reality is something like is described in the film the Day After Tomorrow. Given the variables that seem to be needed to allow life to evolve I think only a handful of planets in this galaxy can support any form of advanced life. The Star Wars or Star Trek settings with abundant humanoid life are not realistic. My personal opinion is that there are only 3 or 4 other intelligent species out there.

An interesting point that I have only recently been made aware of that drops the likelyhood of life elsewhere is that the densely clustered stars near the center of our galaxy (and almost any galaxy for that matter) are so bathed in radiation that life is very unlikely. The super massive black hole at the center is so energized that vast areas near the center are sterilized. Only the "suburbs" of galaxies are hospitable.

That said I suspect that when conditions are right for life that it is inevitable and that it will always form if the right conditions are present.

Have aliens been here? I doubt it. I think Stephen Hawking hits the nail on the head when he states that we would know it if they came. There would be none of this subtle conspiracy nonsense.

UFOs? Of course "U" does stand for "Unidentified" after all.

 

[Combat squirrel]

Do I believe in people seeing objects in the sky that they don't know what they are? Why yes. Do I believe in Aliens you mean? Why yes, statistically it's almost certain. Do I believe an alien species has advanced enough in let's say greater than 10 billion years to travel intergalactic distances? Still also highly likely. Would they visit us? I'd say no but this is also the question most open to debate.

If I was an alien I'd avoid IMO, were still very simple creatures on the grand scale of things.

 

[BunnyKillBot]

Do I believe in people seeing objects in the sky that they don't know what they are? Why yes. Do I believe in Aliens you mean? Why yes, statistically it's almost certain. Do I believe an alien species has advanced enough in let's say greater than 10 billion years to travel intergalactic distances? Still also highly likely. Would they visit us? I'd say no but this is also the question most open to debate.

If I was an alien I'd avoid IMO, were still very simple creatures on the grand scale of things.

So, God absolutely certainly does not exist, but even though nobody has ever seen one Aliens are statistically 'almost certain'. How can you even be almost certain.

Me, i am almost certain that if i drive my care into a brick wall i wont die.

Almost

 

[Bulldog14]

Do I believe in people seeing objects in the sky that they don't know what they are? Why yes. Do I believe in Aliens you mean? Why yes, statistically it's almost certain. Do I believe an alien species has advanced enough in let's say greater than 10 billion years to travel intergalactic distances? Still also highly likely. Would they visit us? I'd say no but this is also the question most open to debate.

If I was an alien I'd avoid IMO, were still very simple creatures on the grand scale of things.

An interesting point to think about is that in the grand scale of things our species has actually evolved and achieved sentience relatively early in the universes life cycle. Given that estimates for total stellar burnout range into the trillions of years the 15 billion that the universe has been around for is but a small fraction of that time. Sci-fi films and series often use plot devices that include an older species that pre-dates ours, when the truth could very well be that we are (will be) the "Ancients".

 

[MookJong]

it's funny how one interview they say it took off straight away and in another interview they examined it more 45minutes, it's funny how the radio recordings have the people seeing the lights every 5 seconds, exactly the timing of the light house, it's funny how the notches in the trees at the "landing" site our just axe marks. It's complete bs and just people seeing something odd and their brains rationalise it in anyway they can, this is a well known phanominum

You clearly have little knowledge of the incident because you are confusing events that happened on TWO separate nights.

If you want to understand the incident then read the book "You can't tell the people" by Georgina Bruni.

Georgina did a fantastic job of separating fact from fiction and gives a really independent view of the incident, she is sceptical and critical from the outset but concludes that something very strange did occur. I had the pleasure of meeting Georgina in 2004, sadly she passed away in 2008.

Once you have read this 600 page book which contains pages and pages of military documentation on the incident then come back and explain your case again to me again.

 

[Glaucus]

Or you could just read the wiki site and see how rubbish it is. There is no hard evidence and the only evidence there is suggests confusion and nothing strange at all.

That is the problem with most alien linked UFOs the evidence doesn't support the claims.
Then there's the other types of UFOs that are just pictures of light and havenoevicpdence either way of what it is.

 

[GordyR]

So, God absolutely certainly does not exist, but even though nobody has ever seen one Aliens are statistically 'almost certain'. How can you even be almost certain.

Me, i am almost certain that if i drive my care into a brick wall i wont die.

Almost

Your argument is flawed i'm afraid... Though interesting

It is statistically 'almost certain' because we have 100% proof that life occurs in the universe. That proof is... Us... And all the various forms of life on this planet. It therefore stands to reason that life should be able to form elsewhere. Given the incredible size of the universe it does make it near on a certainty that life exists elsewhere. In fact it would be incredibly unlikely for it to exist only on planet Earth.

God on the otherhand... Well we have no proof of a god ever existing, so it really isn't a good comparison.

Life = Has appeared in at least one location - fact.
God = Has never been proven to exist at all.

If we had proof of one god existing and your statement was referring to someone not believing in other gods then your point would be valid.

 

[MookJong]

Or you could just read the wiki site and see how rubbish it is. There is no hard evidence and the only evidence there is suggests confusion and nothing strange at all.

That is the problem with most alien linked UFOs the evidence doesn't support the claims.
Then there's the other types of UFOs that are just pictures of light and havenoevicpdence either way of what it is.

What a pathetic response, is that all you have? Wikipedia is your evidence Rendlesham is nonsence.....dear me.

 

[Glaucus]

What a pathetic response, is that all you have? Wikipedia is your evidence Rendlesham is nonsence.....dear me.

You do realise wiki often qoutes the references.

Where's your evidence it was anything but a light house,
Do you deny the audio tapes don't show the 5 second sightings, do you deny the axe marks and so on and so forth.

 

[Usher]

So, God absolutely certainly does not exist, but even though nobody has ever seen one Aliens are statistically 'almost certain'. How can you even be almost certain

lets consider that there are countless billions of stars in the universe for starters, many of these will have planets in orbit & still more of these will have moons any of which may have life forms of one kind or another.

So to consider that amongst the trillions of planets /moons that there may be life can only be logical whereas the likelihood of a supreme supernatural being called god who created the vast universe of trillions of moons & planets is illogical

 

[Stormyx]

I believe in them.