New Tyres needed

[Kenai]

[...] I don't think I've ever really got it near the limit of the CS3s and that's with 200 horses.

The point PMKeates brought up though isn't related to traction caning it round a roundabout or something, it's about stopping distance in emergencies, something any car can be subject to, regardless of power.

If someone pulls out on you whilst you're doing 40mph, whether your car has 50BHP or 500BHP is irrelevant.

 

[Naan_H]

Thats way overkill for a yaris, i wouldnt bother too. Also i wouldnt use kwik fit as a price comparison, they are way overpriced too. Blackcircles / camskill would be a good place to start.

 

[Minstadave]

The point PMKeates brought up though isn't related to traction caning it round a roundabout or something, it's about stopping distance in emergencies, something any car can be subject to, regardless of power.

If someone pulls out on you whilst you're doing 40mph, whether your car has 50BHP or 500BHP is irrelevant.

True, but how much are you prepared to spend for a completely unknown improvement in stopping power? As pointed out you could spend money on better brakes too but how many people do that?

I can't see that you'd get a massive improvement in safety between good midrange tyres and premium tyres.

 

[BigglesPiP]

Ouch, what a horrible price to re-shoe a Yarris.

Just got 4 ContiPremiumContacts fitted to the Alfa in the more common 205/55R16 size for £83.75 each.

I like the price of tyres in that size, but I don't like that a lot of good tyres start from 17"...

 

[arcamalpha]

If we all took the attitude that if anything bad is going to happen it will happen on any tyre, we may as well use remoulded condoms. The fact is that near misses happen, and they are often near misses instead of accidents because of the quality of the tyres. Better tyres often have shorter stopping distances, particularly in the wet. I am happy in the knowledge that if I need to stop suddenly during a torrential downpour I'll have the shortest stopping distances possible.A shopping trolley will benefit from excellent tyres just as much as a high performance saloon or sports car. If you feel that the cost of that benefit is too much for you, fine, but then that's because you can't afford the cost rather than there's no benefit.

Agreed.

I tell peope to spend whatever they can justify on tyres. Why compromise safety for a few quid?? However, I don't think it's necessary to buy the most expensive. Unless your needs are specific, I say just buy a current model tyre from a premium manufacturer - Goodyear, Dunlop, Micheline, Pirelli etc.

 

[ganesh]

Anyone else think it stupid that even the most mundane of new hatchbacks are fitted with 17/18 inch wheels?

I don't see why this is necessary.

 

[DM]

Agreed.

I tell peope to spend whatever they can justify on tyres. Why compromise safety for a few quid?? However, I don't think it's necessary to buy the most expensive. Unless your needs are specific, I say just buy a current model tyre from a premium manufacturer - Goodyear, Dunlop, Micheline, Pirelli etc.

thats what i been saying for years, they all ridiculed me you know, never mind.

just buy the best tyres you can afford with a name you have heard of.

 

[PMKeates]

Or by your logic why not spend more and get something more expensive like Pilot Sports?

Agreed, but the Pilot Sports available in his size are the PS3s, which aren't as good as some of the other tyres.

You could almost certainly have better brake discs, brake pads and brake calipers than you have atm and have a shorter stopping distance still but I would guess the reason you don't is cost? You could replace the tyres at 5mm tread to maintain optimum braking in the wet but again, I suspect you don't do that.

Better discs, pads and calipers are going to have a very small effect on the single emergency stop scenario. I suspect his brakes are more than capable of overcoming the grip available from the tyres.

Something all of you are neglecting to factor in is the increase in total cost of motoring for Raymond Lin between mid range and maximum performance tyres. Based on his mileage, to go from Uniroyal Rainsports to Continental SportContact 3s all round would cost him around thirty five quid a year, compared to the thousands of pounds he is spending on running his car. It probably represents not even 1% of his total cost. For such a small cost increase why wouldn't you want the better performing tyre?

Why compromise safety for a few quid?? However, I don't think it's necessary to buy the most expensive. Unless your needs are specific, I say just buy a current model tyre from a premium manufacturer - Goodyear, Dunlop, Micheline, Pirelli etc.

Why compromise indeed. For low mileage drivers the difference in cost between a current model tyre from a premium manufacturer and a maximum performance tyre is very small.

 

[BigglesPiP]

I am happy in the knowledge that if I need to stop suddenly during a torrential downpour I'll have the shortest stopping distances possible.

This is why regardless of the car I buy decent tyres.

It's also why I use RainX, it's no so I can drive with the wipers off, it's so I can see more with the wipers on. You know when there's so much spray on the motorway it's hard to see past the car in front... well it's only when you try RainX that you realise most of that "spray" is actually water on your windscreen. It sounds silly but you can actually see the spray in the air once it's not on your screen, it's a very profound difference.

 

[Joshy]

This is why regardless of the car I buy decent tyres.

I think the question in this case is where exactly do you draw the line? Would you bung CS3s on a £1000 Ford Focus? A friend of a friend wants tyre suggestions for her 68bhp 107, do you tell her to go for top of the line bridgestones twice the price of Toyos even though all she uses her car for is pottering about town at 15MPH?

 

[PMKeates]

I think the question in this case is where exactly do you draw the line? Would you bung CS3s on a £1000 Ford Focus? A friend of a friend wants tyre suggestions for her 68bhp 107, do you tell her to go for top of the line bridgestones twice the price of Toyos even though all she uses her car for is pottering about town at 15MPH?

If someone were to exclusively drive around town at 15 MPH then I would consider not recommending maixmum performance tyres. The speeds involved there mean that reaction time is significantly more important than actual stopping distance between premium and maximum performance tyres. However, most people, including Raymond, do not exclusively do that. If you are a low mileage driver and you drive at, say, speeds of 50 MPH or more, then you will be safer with maximum performance tyres and, due to the mileage, the difference in cost is negligible.

 

[eidolon]

The OCUK tyre snobs strike again.

Do you honestly think that the difference between a Toyo T1R/Falken 452 and a CS3 is that much when fitted to a tepid hatchback like a Yaris? It has budget brakes, budget suspension, budget seats, budget dash, budget pretty much everything so why does it suddenly need top of the range tyres? So it can stop 10cm shorter than with tyres twice the price? If you're so worried that your driving is so bad and you can't anticipate dangers that you need that 10cm then don't waste money on top notch tyres for a budget hatch, just buy a better car in the first place with good brakes, and good suspension and you'll stop 5m shorter than in the Yaris.
I managed not to turn my MR2 turbo into a ball of flames when it was fitted with Toyos, the CTR didn't fall off the road when it had Falkens and my Cooper S is managing perfectly well on Vredesteins. Drexel has Kumhos on his Golf from memory and he's still in one piece too (having been a passenger with him, I know he doesn't drive like a granny either)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's no point in good quality tyres (hell, I've just fitted Michelin Pilot Road 3's to my motorbike which were £280 a pair) but I don't think that there's any point fitting anything more than Toyo/Falkens to this type of car. As long as you don't fit Linglongs then the difference between Toyos and CS3s might be 5% improvement for 100% more cost. Pointless in my opinion.

 

[-Ad-]

R888 - soft compound.



Good post eidolon, I'm in agreement with you! It's a weird place in here and tyre discussions normally move into arguments.

Also, you cannot just recommend a test winning tyre as the blanket best tyre for every type of car. E.g. the close to home integra would not be good at all on one if these tyres, hence the great following for the stiff walled RS2, and AD08, with plenty of love for PS2s. Who are people on here driving completely different types of cars to tell experienced owners of certain other cars what is best.

My advice to Ray is to get a good mid-range tyre and then move onto getting more experience actually driving his car rather than getting worried about tyre choice bickering on here

 

[PMKeates]

The OCUK tyre snobs strike again.

Whatever. I'm suggesting he spend £35 a year more on tyres.

Do you honestly think that the difference between a Toyo T1R/Falken 452 and a CS3 is that much when fitted to a tepid hatchback like a Yaris?

Yes. Why wouldn't it?

It has budget brakes, budget suspension, budget seats, budget dash, budget pretty much everything so why does it suddenly need top of the range tyres? So it can stop 10cm shorter than with tyres twice the price? If you're so worried that your driving is so bad and you can't anticipate dangers that you need that 10cm then don't waste money on top notch tyres for a budget hatch, just buy a better car in the first place with good brakes, and good suspension and you'll stop 5m shorter than in the Yaris.

That's utter nonsense.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/Ford-Fiesta-1.25-LX-/217483/

Ford Fiesta 1.25 LX - very basic budget car. 60-0 MPH in 2.5 seconds.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/BMW-M3-4.0-V8/227524/

BMW M3 V8 - performance car. 60-0 MPH in 2.62 seconds.

Raymond Lin's Yaris is going to have better braking performance than that Fiesta thanks to it being a bit of a 'warm' hatch.

One-off emergency braking performance from typical road speeds has not a great deal to do with how big your brakes are in most modern cars.

I managed not to turn my MR2 turbo into a ball of flames when it was fitted with Toyos, the CTR didn't fall off the road when it had Falkens and my Cooper S is managing perfectly well on Vredesteins. Drexel has Kumhos on his Golf from memory and he's still in one piece too (having been a passenger with him, I know he doesn't drive like a granny either)

Good for you and Drexel. That doesn't make those tyres any better though, does it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's no point in good quality tyres (hell, I've just fitted Michelin Pilot Road 3's to my motorbike which were £280 a pair) but I don't think that there's any point fitting anything more than Toyo/Falkens to this type of car. As long as you don't fit Linglongs then the difference between Toyos and CS3s might be 5% improvement for 100% more cost. Pointless in my opinion.

Difference between Toyos and CS3s is 100% more cost - what? No it isn't. It's far less than that, and the absolute cost, as I mentioned in my first point, is next to nothing.

Good post eidolon, I'm in agreement with you! It's a weird place in here and tyre discussions normally move into arguments.

Discussions normally move in to arguments when people who post nonsense try to purport it's fact and influence other people's decisions. Those of us with sense tend to get a little noisy at that point.

The fact of the matter is that Raymond can spend an extra few quid on two tyres now, have better performance and safety, and he won't have to think about replacing them for around 3 years.

 

[BigglesPiP]

I think the question in this case is where exactly do you draw the line? Would you bung CS3s on a £1000 Ford Focus? A friend of a friend wants tyre suggestions for her 68bhp 107, do you tell her to go for top of the line bridgestones twice the price of Toyos even though all she uses her car for is pottering about town at 15MPH?

The line? Pirelli is on one side of it, Fulda is on the other. Sort of there-ish.

My personal line is a little higher.

 

[Joshy]

The line? Pirelli is on one side of it, Fulda is on the other. Sort of there-ish.

My personal line is a little higher.

And where do the likes of Toyo, Kumho, hanook, falken, etc fall on this line? Thousands of people will spend all day long saying that they are decent tyres, but they aren't 'premium' brands.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Well, how many miles does a set of gyres last? 10k? 15k?

I do about 5k miles a year. I have done 300miles so far since I got the car but it's only because 100 of that I spent driving it home from Cardiff so I am on course for 5k a year.

On that estimate, £300 (or for the sake of argument, £600 for 4), that will last me 3 years. So £200 a year for tires is not that bad, I spend roughly that that on shoes/trainers a year!

 

[Joshy]

Depends on the car, the driver, its use, the tyre fitted, the tyre pressure, how far out of whack the alignment is and a bunch of other factors that make it impossible to say for certain, but 15k sounds about right.

 

[james.miller]

I don't buy that for most situations, it's a small, light car with I guess 100bhp? You're not as likely to get it close to a tyres set of traction or grip than a performance car. And generalising, you're not going to drive it in the same manner either.

So to my mind it seems daft blowing £150 a corner on CS3s for a luke warm hatch.

Or by your logic why not spend more and get something more expensive like Pilot Sports?

I've got uniroyal rainsport2's on my xsara and i completely agree with that. I just don't feel that better tyes are needed on a car like mine and presumably the yaris would be much the same.

 

[Minstadave]

Discussions normally move in to arguments when people who post nonsense try to purport it's fact and influence other people's decisions. Those of us with sense tend to get a little noisy at that point.

Ok then lets review:

Until he slides in to the back of another car?

Scaremongering

The fact is that near misses happen, and they are often near misses instead of accidents because of the quality of the tyres.

Source?

Better discs, pads and calipers are going to have a very small effect on the single emergency stop scenario. I suspect his brakes are more than capable of overcoming the grip available from the tyres.

Assumption?

Raymond Lin's Yaris is going to have better braking performance than that Fiesta thanks to it being a bit of a 'warm' hatch.

One-off emergency braking performance from typical road speeds has not a great deal to do with how big your brakes are in most modern cars.

Assumption and source for the latter? The M3 in your example weighs substantially more than the Fiesta.