PC died - Trying to figure out which part is broken - Advice needed please

jaybee · 26 Jun 2011 at 21:28

Hey OP, SkScotchegg.
Take the mobo out of the case. Put it on the desk (yep bare wooden desk is fine) and plug the following in:

1: PSU ATX main mobo cable

2: PSU 4/8 pin mobo power cable

3: ONE stick of ram into the relevant correct slot 1 of the mobo or whichever slot the handbook informs you to insert it into when running ONE single memory module

4: The CPU and heatsink. If you can't be bothered to do paste then just rest the heatsink on it for this and use mavity.

5: A single FAN onto the mobo CPU fan header (some mobos require to detect a fan present here to post but this isn't really usually necessary)

6: Use onboard gfx on the mobo and connect to monitor. Ensure monitor is on and can auto detect input or set it manually to DVI/VGA as to what lead you use

DO NOT connect anything else. No HDDs, no optical drives, no case USB or led/power leads at all.

Then take a flat head screwdriver, carefulyl short the two pins positive and negative/ground that would connect to the case's power cable. This should turn the system on.

Post back what happens.

SkScotchegg · 26 Jun 2011 at 21:44

jaybee said:
Hey OP, SkScotchegg.
Take the mobo out of the case. Put it on the desk (yep bare wooden desk is fine) and plug the following in:

1: PSU ATX main mobo cable

2: PSU 4/8 pin mobo power cable

3: ONE stick of ram into the relevant correct slot 1 of the mobo or whichever slot the handbook informs you to insert it into when running ONE single memory module

4: The CPU and heatsink. If you can't be bothered to do paste then just rest the heatsink on it for this and use mavity.

5: A single FAN onto the mobo CPU fan header (some mobos require to detect a fan present here to post but this isn't really usually necessary)

6: Use onboard gfx on the mobo and connect to monitor. Ensure monitor is on and can auto detect input or set it manually to DVI/VGA as to what lead you use

DO NOT connect anything else. No HDDs, no optical drives, no case USB or led/power leads at all.

Then take a flat head screwdriver, carefulyl short the two pins positive and negative/ground that would connect to the case's power cable. This should turn the system on.

Post back what happens.

Cheers for reply, I follow you up to the last part and am not sure what you mean by "short the two pins"?

gamesaregood · 26 Jun 2011 at 21:48

SkScotchegg said:
Cheers for reply, I follow you up to the last part and am not sure what you mean by "short the two pins"?

He is referring to the pins on the header for the power switch as its not in a case you will have no power button otherwise

Borrowing the CMOS jumper from the other motherboard should work well...

jaybee · 26 Jun 2011 at 21:54

Yeah, "shorting" the two pins means you connect something between them to conduct a circuit between them. So say I had two cables with bare wire ends from the mains and wanted to electecute myself, I could touch them on myself using myself to pass a current through them acting like the screwdriver tip in my suggestion. Or in otherwords, like bridging a gap. So find something conductive to connect them but being different to the power switch on the case to eliminate the case totally. i.e. CMOS/HDD style jumper block, something metallic, paper clip, whatever. Just be careful that you touch the correct pins.

SkScotchegg · 26 Jun 2011 at 22:10

gamesaregood said:
He is referring to the pins on the header for the power switch as its not in a case you will have no power button otherwise

Borrowing the CMOS jumper from the other motherboard should work well...

Am not sure where these pins are or what a header is, do you mean like the pins where you plug those little fidly wires into when your first put the motherboard into a new case, the ones that are already in the case, they come from the front panel which has the power on switch, restart switch and hard drive activity bulb?

Are you saying thats the part I need to short?

I thought I could just take the mobo out the case but leave everything plugged in and so the PSU would still be in the case and I could still use the power on switch from the front of the case?

SkScotchegg · 26 Jun 2011 at 22:16

jaybee said:
Yeah, "shorting" the two pins means you connect something between them to conduct a circuit between them. So say I had two cables with bare wire ends from the mains and wanted to electecute myself, I could touch them on myself using myself to pass a current through them acting like the screwdriver tip in my suggestion. Or in otherwords, like briding a gap. So find something conductive to connect them but being different to the power switch on the case to eliminate the case totally. i.e. CMOS/HDD style jumper block, something metallic, paper clip, whatever. Just be careful what you touch the correct pins.

Your making me concerned now, I dont want to electrocute myself lol.

You know the part am struggling with right now, am struggling with getting the mobo out because the screws arent unscrewing for some reason, think they're turning the gold screws they're screwed into underneith, god damn it.

You know what I just remembered tho, my mate was gona build a new rig and he was going to buy it in parts, and then he ordered a new case and didnt buy the rest and the case has been sat at his house for months now doing nothing, and so I'm thinking maybe I could get that case off him and then transfer this rig into a brand new case and that would solve this problem and make things a lot easier and then we could rule out the case.

Also I managed to find another power cable earlier and tried that one and still didnt work so that rules out the cable.

So out of the whole checklist of things we've checked over past 72 hours the only thing left is the case...not that I can really comrehend why a case would cause a PC to stop working...but if I transfer all this to a brand new case tomorrow and it still doesnt work then theres nothing left for me to check coz I've already checked everything.

jaybee · 26 Jun 2011 at 22:18

SkScotchegg said:
Am not sure where these pins are or what a header is, do you mean like the pins where you plug those little fidly wires into when your first put the motherboard into a new case, the wires are already in the case they come from the front panel which has the power on switch, restart switch and hard drive activity bulb?

Are you saying thats the part I need to short?

I thought I could just take the mobo out the case but leave everything plugged in and so the PSU would still be in the case and I could still use the power on switch from the front of the case?

Your post above makes me nervous that you want to attempt watercooling on your PC - atleast I'm sure I read you say that above?

Let me start again....

TAKE THE MOBO OUT OF THE CASE
TAKE THE PSU OUT OF THE CASE
Take the case into another room or outside. Leave it there. Forget about it.

Now put the mobo on the table and follow my post above. The PSu should also be sat on the table on it's own with a kettle lead connecting it to a wall socket. Build it all up like I stated and then plug that lead into the wall and flick the switch on, and the switch on the PSU on so you get power to the board. Now short the header pins on the mobo which will turn it on.

What do I mean by short the header pins. Right...well.....you know the power switch on a case? This has a positive and ground wire going from the otehrside of where you push that switch, to the motherboard header pins, one of which will be a ground, and one positive. All the power switch on the case does when you push it in, is make this circuit go live, which turns the system on. You want to bypass the case and/or power switch being dodgey, so rather than create this circuit using that power switch and case, you do the most direct thing possible which is to directly connect the ground and positive header on the motherboard with a screwdriver tip say. This will turn the system on. You bridge the two pins that would be the exact two you would connect the cases power turn on switch to.

Does that make sense?

jaybee · 26 Jun 2011 at 22:26

The bit in red on this pic. You touch a screwdriver tip to the two pins on the red section so it bridges the gap and connects them. i.e. Touch them both at the same time with screwdriver.

SkScotchegg · 26 Jun 2011 at 22:28

Your post above makes me nervous that you want to attempt watercooling on your PC - atleast I'm sure I read you say that above?

Let me start again....

TAKE THE MOBO OUT OF THE CASE
TAKE THE PSU OUT OF THE CASE
Take the case into another room or outside. Leave it there. Forget about it.

Now put the mobo on the table and follow my post above. The PSu should also be sat on the table on it's own with a kettle lead connecting it to a wall socket. Build it all up like I stated and then plug that lead into the wall and flick the switch on, and the switch on the PSU on so you get power to the board. Now short the header pins on the mobo which will turn it on.

What do I mean by short the header pins. Right...well.....you know the power switch on a case? This has a positive and ground wire going from the otehrside of where you push that switch, to the motherboard header pins, one of which will be a ground, and one positive. All the power switch on the case does when you push it in, is make this circuit go live, which turns the system on. You want to bypass the case and/or power switch being dodgey, so rather than create this circuit using that power switch and case, you do the most direct thing possible which is to directly connect the ground and positive header on the motherboard with a screwdriver tip say. This will turn the system on. You bridge the two pins that would be the exact two you would connect the cases power turn on switch to.

Does that make sense?

Yeah I understand now, sorry if am sounding slack, just didnt know what ya meant with this header and shorting two pins, I understand what ya meant, but just not where to find these pins coz never done that before.

Well ok give me 10-20 mins and ill post back once I done this.

jaybee · 26 Jun 2011 at 22:45

Mate I got to go to bed, good luck post back

SkScotchegg · 26 Jun 2011 at 23:03

I've got it all out on the desk, set it all up exactly as you said, green light is on on mobo so I know its got power, I tried putting screwdriver on pins but nothing happened, not sure if am touching right pins tho, they dont seem to have colors like in your picture and...

I know which pins it is where I plug the front panel into, theres 9 pins and I got 4 wires that plug into those 9, but out of those 9 I dont know which two pins is the ones for the power switch now its outside the case.

Is there no other way to turn it on?

SkScotchegg · 26 Jun 2011 at 23:05

Oh spoke too soon, I've managed to turn it on by touching them pins...its not made a difference though...still not displaying or beeping or posting.

Well I bought a new CPU today and I've tried indivudal sticks of ram and surely not all 4 sticks of ram can be corrupt so am totally clueless now.

HNR1 · 26 Jun 2011 at 23:25

Oh for the sake of a mobo speaker the puter was lost

you know you can pick them up for a pound or sometimes a bit more on the bay, your local computer shop should sell them too.

I don't know if you purchased a new stick of ram, i've had the odd single stick of ram fail.

I wouldn't bother putting anything back in the case, till you've sorted it.

The__Malteser · 27 Jun 2011 at 01:22

You sir, are officially the unluckiest person on OcUK.

Sometimes the way way of 'throwing everything out and starting fresh' is he best

paradisiac · 27 Jun 2011 at 09:42

just so i have this right in my head, you currently have out of the case :
brand new psu
brand new mobo
brand new cpu
brand new/onboard gfx
old ram

and nothing else?
if so, it would point to you just being unlucky and having a new 'faulty' component or all of your ram is dead.

jaybee · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:17

Take the BIOS battery out of the motherboard and wait 5 minutes then put it back in and try again. Describe what happens when you touch those pins. If it does nothing, how do you know it has attempted to POST? Does a fan spin up? Leave everything out on the table like this whilst you troubleshoot. Do you have duplicate components left for anything now? If you do, swap out one thing at a time until you find the issue, although it sounds like you pretty much have done this. All I can suggest is you have missed something somewhere and rushed some of your testing. There will be a faulty component somewhere.

jaybee · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:19

SkScotchegg said:
Well I bought a new CPU today and I've tried indivudal sticks of ram and surely not all 4 sticks of ram can be corrupt so am totally clueless now.

Are you putting them in the right slot/s? Yes all of them can be bad. CPU is usually the least likely thing to go bad although can happen.

Sammanu · 27 Jun 2011 at 12:17

Having the exact same problem, I've literally RMA'd my CPU and motherboard thinking that they were the problem, and it still won't post.... Been without my PC for nearly 3months fixing this problem

Might just send everything back for a refund and buy a new bundle, its gone past the point of being annoying now!!

SkScotchegg · 27 Jun 2011 at 12:48

You sir, are officially the unluckiest person on OcUK.

Sometimes the way way of 'throwing everything out and starting fresh' is he best

lol I definitely feel unlucky, this is day 4 without a PC!! AhhhhhH!

just so i have this right in my head, you currently have out of the case :
brand new psu
brand new mobo
brand new cpu
brand new/onboard gfx
old ram

and nothing else?
if so, it would point to you just being unlucky and having a new 'faulty' component or all of your ram is dead.

Well since I bought a new CPU yesterday and its done same thing with both cpus that rules that out, so the only peice of hardware I havent bought is ram, so maybe I should go buy a stick of ram to test that.

And as for your question, right now I got one setup in the case and one setup outside the case on my desk, the one outside the case you called a sekeleton build, just has cpu and one stick of ram in, nothing else.

The setup outside the case is the old PSU, old mobo, old ram, old cpu, the setup inside the case is new psu, new mobo, new cpu, with one stick of old ram.

Am going to take the new stuff out the case today and do a skeleton build with the new stuff also then I've tried everything.

Both setups dont work, so maybe all 4 sticks of ram are dead, but what could cause 4 sticks of ram to die at once?

Take the BIOS battery out of the motherboard and wait 5 minutes then put it back in and try again. Describe what happens when you touch those pins. If it does nothing, how do you know it has attempted to POST? Does a fan spin up? Leave everything out on the table like this whilst you troubleshoot. Do you have duplicate components left for anything now? If you do, swap out one thing at a time until you find the issue, although it sounds like you pretty much have done this. All I can suggest is you have missed something somewhere and rushed some of your testing. There will be a faulty component somewhere.

I've taken the batterys out both mobo's for 10 mins each time and tried that mate. As for what happens when I touch the two pins...it does the exact same thing its always done, both inside the case and outside the case, it appears to turn on, lights come on, fans come on but doesn't display anything on monitor, doesnt boot up, doesnt beep.

Are you putting them in the right slot/s? Yes all of them can be bad. CPU is usually the least likely thing to go bad although can happen.

Yeah I've followed the manual for both mobo's but I tried every single slot with every single peice of ram, one mobo has 4 slots and other has 2.

Having the exact same problem, I've literally RMA'd my CPU and motherboard thinking that they were the problem, and it still won't post.... Been without my PC for nearly 3months fixing this problem

Might just send everything back for a refund and buy a new bundle, its gone past the point of being annoying now!!

Sucks to be us right now!! Couldnt have happened at a worse time for me either coz proper skint at moment, if this had happened in 4-6 weeks I would have had the money to buy a new PC. :mad:

Mattus · 27 Jun 2011 at 12:54

When you connected up the new motherboard/PSU - you did remember to plug both power cables into the motherboard, right? Both the big rectangular one and the smaller 4- or 8-pin one?

Sorry if this seems obvious, but people do forget the smaller one sometimes!