Time is bonkers

[Tefal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest

current phrasing is from a physics book

origin is more about whether the tree exists when no one is perceiving it.

 

[Rainmaker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest

current phrasing is from a physics book

But it's not known where it truly sprang from. It certainly has the hallmarks of a koan and similarly worded koans abound in the literature. At any rate, it qualifies as a koan regardless of source.

 

[Gilly]

Basically who cares...

If you don't care, why bother responding?

 

[Tefal]

If you don't care, why bother responding?

The conversation is often more interesting than the discussion.

 

[Castiel]

Technically if you can't perceive the brick there is no brick.

That would depend on whether you have knowledge of the Brick. Although the Brick is not within your immediate ability to perceive, you may have certain knowledge that the Brick exists or at least existed.

 

[The Dread Pirate]

Because I know a red brick is red! By definition it cannot be anything other than red... unless it was made by someone named red...god damn it who knew a red brick could cause so much annoyance!

 

[Rainmaker]

That would depend on whether you have knowledge of the Brick. Although the Brick is not within your immediate ability to perceive, you may have certain knowledge that the Brick exists or at least existed.

But by knowing it, I perceive it.

 

[Castiel]

Because I know a red brick is red! By definition it cannot be anything other than red... unless it was made by someone named red...god damn it who knew a red brick could cause so much annoyance!

I know that a Brick is Blue, does that mean that all bricks outside my immediate perception are Blue?

 

[Castiel]

But by knowing it, I perceive it.

But only as an abstract.

 

[Rainmaker]

But only as an abstract.

Is there truly any other kind?

 

[Flibster]

If a man is in the middle of a forest and there are no women around to hear him. Is he still wrong?

 

[The Dread Pirate]

Exunctly. The reason I was asking about the brick is because if you cannot perceive the brick, or cannot perceive the red wavelength; by definition the brick cannot be red

I know that a Brick is Blue, does that mean that all bricks outside my immediate perception are Blue?

No but you didn't define said brick, look at the question he clearly defined the brick as being a red brick.

Is a red brick still a red brick if there is no-one around to see it?

So therefore it's still a "red brick".

 

[Castiel]

Is there truly any other kind?

Well, that is the question is it not?...

 

[Castiel]

No but you didn't define said brick, look at the question he clearly defined the brick as being a red brick.



So therefore it's still a "red brick".

But only to your perception, you have no idea whether the Brick remains Red, or even if the original observer when defining a Red Brick was reacting to stimuli that made the Brick appear Red, or whether their definition of Red matches yours, or whether the Brick was actually a Horse and when he said Red he was referring to some other than it's colour.

This is the reason why such questions of abstracts are so convoluted and impossible to answer definitively.

As Tefal mentioned earlier the only thing you can be sure of is your own Mind, everything else cannot be be known definitively and may not actually exist.

 

[wilko49]

Both the tree making a sound and the brick being red are true only when they are perceived - this is because sound and colour are abstract concepts which exist only in conscious minds. The brick will remain physically unchanged, and reflect (or rather, be capable of reflecting) the same frequencies whether it is perceived or not - however, without something to perceive those frequencies, that does not amount to it being red. Likewise for the tree.

 

[Swi1ch]

Is a red brick still a red brick if there is no-one around to see it?

A red brick wall is still red, because of coloured light and all that stuff (I don't deal with colour).

Edit. Maybe it's not red. Colour and light are not my area.

Sound, by definition, is the interpretation of waves through a medium by the ear. If no one is there to hear it, there is no sound.

 

[The Dread Pirate]

But only to your perception, you have no idea whether the Brick remains Red, or even if the original observer when defining a Red Brick was reacting to stimuli that made the Brick appear Red, or whether their definition of Red matches yours, or whether the Brick was actually a Horse and when he said Red he was referring to some other than it's colour.

This is the reason why such questions of abstracts are so convoluted and impossible to answer definitively.

As Tefal mentioned earlier the only thing you can be sure of is your own Mind, everything else cannot be be known definitively and may not actually exist.

It's not about perception if a red brick is defined as being red it cannot be otherwise however if he were to say "Is a brick still red if no-ones around to see it?" then yes I'd agree with you but because he defined the brick as being red and made no mention to the perception of said object being in question I disagree with you entirely.

 

[Castiel]

It's not about perception if a red brick is defined as being red it cannot be otherwise however if he were to say "Is a brick still red if no-ones around to see it?" then yes I'd agree with you but because he defined the brick as being red and made no mention to the perception of said object being in question I disagree with you entirely.

So you are dependent on the perception of the person who defined the Brick as Red, and as you cannot be justifiably sure of anything outside of your own mind, then it is still reliant upon your perception of the knowledge given to you by the definer.

The Brick may not be Red.

 

[The Dread Pirate]

So you are dependent on the perception of the person who defined the Brick as Red, and as you cannot be justifiably sure of anything outside of your own mind, then it is still reliant upon your perception of the knowledge given to you by the definer.

The Brick may not be Red.

The fact that it was defined means it was percieved and unless Gilly is not Human(Well he may be a machine we're still uncertain) my perception of said brick will be the same hence if it's been clearly defined it has been percieved previously and therefore will still be red!

 

[arknor]

If a tree falls in a wood with nobody to hear it does not make a sound, it does however cause vibrations in the air.

if a tree falls and no one sees it did a tree still fall?

imo it did and imo that tree made a sound even if you didnt hear it something else in that wood did