Teachers on strike

[Danthus]

That's right and the majority of those that could be bothered vote were for a strike. Simples.

Most would argue it is not a true representation though.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Not really because, they will not really garner public support for oging on strike based on less than a third of their entire memberships say so. It makes the everyday private sector joe bloggs resent the union driven public sector just that little bit more. So yes it is worth arguing over this as eventually its what will be the unions undoing.

The right's usual bogey men, already mentioned, are employed by private companies.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

it needs to be representative of the work force.

A 40% to 60% turn out with a 60% yay to strike is not representative. And before the vultures come in I believe they should do the same for general / local elections. Voting should be mandatory for all eligible citizens under punishment of large fine for not doing so without good reason and proof of said reason. yes its administratively a pain in the ass but its fairer no ?

Nonsense - a fundamental part of the democratic process is the right to choose not to participate in that democratic process.

Min ballot thresholds, min membership density etc - Jeez - it's all sounding a bit left wing authoritarianism in here for my liking! The only regime where people have been forced to vote has been in Communism.

 

[Danthus]

Why do the union heads have remuneration that does not reflect the workforce they represent?

 

[wildman]

Ridiculous arguement in a democracy.

As long as the Govt cannot be elected until it has 50.1% of the entire eligible vote, the above is dangerous and will leqad to more rather than less disruption.

read my previous post where I stated the same needs to apply to general / local elections also. Additionally I did not advocate the need to a 100% turn out either. It jsut needs to be more representative i.e if 80% turn out was legislated and of that 80% 50% said strike that's a lot more representative than the numbers that took them out on strike today.

If the public see that unions take their members out on strike with essential made up statistics do you really think they are going to support your cause or just look upon you as filthy grabbers of tax payers monies ?

 

[Danthus]

Nonsense - a fundamental part of the democratic process is the right to choose not to participate in that democratic process.

Jeez - it's all sounding a bit left wing authoritarianism in here for my liking!

And taking into account the right to choose, a minority have caused mass disruption, is that democratic?

 

[do_ron_ron]

those companies are not paid for by public taxation, the top directors get paid based on the profits generated, shareholder get dividends based on anual turnover.

So your post is actually a stupid one not mine.

So blackmailing by a public company is OK in your world.

 

[GAC]

If it was reduced in size then savings could be made and useful employees paid more.

But sure, feel free to label me a right wing monster for daring to suggest that it's ludicrous that the government employs a third of the workforce, or whatever the number is.

didnt mention politics and dont want to as to be honest iv had my fill of all the major partys and there name calling of each other.

il agree its too big and needs cutting, but why is it everytime someone looks at saving money its the guys who get paid the least and have been cut back to the limits who will end up with the worst of any deal.

and again why lump them all in together, or is it too hard for people to accept that not all the public sector are paid £40k+ and gets a good pension ??

 

[wildman]

Nonsense - a fundamental part of the democratic process is the right to choose not to participate in that democratic process.

Min ballot thresholds, min membership density etc - Jeez - it's all sounding a bit left wing authoritarianism in here for my liking!

then choose not to take part by turning up and writing CAMERON IS A **** on your ballot paper. You can't say the majority of your workers back the strike when almost half of them couldn't be arsed to show in the first place.

Lets say there was a 100% turn out

45% said yes
20% said no
35% wrote DO ONE CAMERON on the paper effecitively spoiling it

end result union takes workforce out

public sees the union members turned out to vote and the majority of them were in favour. Public has raised sympathy levels for the cause,

how the hell is that a bad thing for unions ?

 

[do_ron_ron]

and since when did they count for a yes vote ?

you have a serious logic issue my friend, or you are an idiot, take your pick

They don't count in a democracy. Heard of the concept!!!

Your logic like your ridiculous arguement is flawed.

 

[Robbo]

In a perfect world, we could sack all of these half-wits.

 

[do_ron_ron]

even if it is not represntative of the entire union membership ?

there is a lot of ludditism going on in this thread

They have the chance to vote. Try looking up democratic vote, you seem not to be able to understand the concept.

 

[Danthus]

Just look at how misleading this is.

http://www.teachers.org.uk/files/nut-news-strike-june-7462.pdf

92% voted in favour according to the flyer, what it doesn't mention is the turnout. And the union has the audacity to accuse others of spin.

 

[topshot]

The whole, marking and lesson plan things always seems to me to be something which is over exagerated to no end in my opinion, as is the "they go into school during the summer holidays every single day you know" (now unless my teachers had mastered teleportation, or had tunnelled in, there was barely ever a car at any of my schools over the summer holidays).

The last few years at my comprehensive school, the majority of lessons were worked from structured books, set by edexcel or whoever, and published by a publishing company, so where's the planning in that exactly? And unless they reanimate the remains of Mr. Pythagoras anytime soon, is GCSE level mathematics going to be revolutionised anytime soon, or will it still be teaching decimals, ratios, and basic algebra? So once you have it sorted, how is it hard exactly to rinse, and repeat when your current year 10 class goes on to year 11, and you have a new year 10 class? Obviously you have to account for the minor alterations the governing boards change every year, but I've never heard of that drastic a change taking place.

This was my point too. Wait for the 'teachers work 70hour weeks' brigade to turn up

 

[wildman]

So blackmailing by a public company is OK in your world.

Thats irelevant. The issue at stake was pay and pensions for those private sector barons not being subsidised by the tax payer and being based entirely on the profitability of the company in question.

 

[do_ron_ron]

read my previous post where I stated the same needs to apply to general / local elections also. Additionally I did not advocate the need to a 100% turn out either. It jsut needs to be more representative i.e if 80% turn out was legislated and of that 80% 50% said strike that's a lot more representative than the numbers that took them out on strike today.

If the public see that unions take their members out on strike with essential made up statistics do you really think they are going to support your cause or just look upon you as filthy grabbers of tax payers monies ?

You would never have a Govt in this country. People in this country are too lazy to vote so they have to accept the democratic choice of those that do.

 

[Mr Jack]

It's staggeringly hypocritical of Cameron to object to unions going out with 50% of those who voted in support. That's way more support that he managed to run the country. Why on earth should unions be expected to hold to higher standards of democratic representation than our political representatives?

 

[Danthus]

Here is the full NUT result.


The result of the NUT Ballots was as follows:

NUT members in Local Authority (LA) schools (community, Foundation, Trust, Voluntary aided and Voluntary controlled schools), LA central services, Sixth Form Colleges, Academies and post 1992 Universities.

Total number of ballot papers returned: 84,469 (turnout 40.4%)
Total number of spoiled papers: 65
Number voting ‘YES’ 77,681
Number voting ‘NO’ 6,723

Percentage voting ‘YES’ 92%

Fee paying independent and private schools:
Total number of ballot papers returned: 1,777 (turnout 27%)
Total number of spoiled papers: 4
Number voting ‘YES’ 1,578
Number voting ‘NO’ 195
Percentage voting ‘YES’ 89%

Overall Total
Total number of ballot papers returned: 86,246 (turnout 40%)
Total number of spoiled papers: 69
Number voting ‘YES’ 79,259
Number voting ‘NO’ 6,918

Percentage voting ‘YES’ 92%

 

[Irish_Tom]

Here is the full NUT result.


The result of the NUT Ballots was as follows:

So what's the problem? 40% turnout, 92% Yes vote.

Governments get into power with much less of both.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Thats irelevant. The issue at stake was pay and pensions for those private sector barons not being subsidised by the tax payer and being based entirely on the profitability of the company in question.

The right are always going on about strikers blackmailing the public so I am throwing it back in your face with examples of private companies doing the same. You cannot make excuses for one and exonerate the other.