Riots in Tottenham, London! (NO RACIST COMMENTS)

[Dr Who]

So how does that justify stealing it, sorry, taking it by force, sorry, taxing it from them?

A) a good chunk of them got rich off of the misery and work of others

B) a good chunk of them got rich off of earth resources which nobody owns

C) another chunk of them got rich through achieving NOTHING other than market manipulation and making others poorer.

You make it sound like all of them got wealthy through hard work and personal toil when nothing is farther from the truth.

As a Brit I know my heritage is one of slavery and theft from countries we took over militarily. Stole natural resources, gold diamonds (and I know we werent the only ones) Oil etc etc. We cannot sit back and say we deserve all we have as a nation when so much of it has come from the misery of others.

 

[Tefal]

And what is the obsession with needing to have an answer right now why can't we research into what needs doing?

a few reasons

1) the problem exists now.


2) a government only lasts 4 years so needs solutions that have effects in 4 years.

Have some of these offenders do community service, see if it works. Have other offenders do something else like a vocation scheme, see if they gain that missing element out of it (and skimp on their wages to "pay" back what they stole etc.)

Not sure if that would count as experimentation.

but again what about the people who don't want to "rehabilitate"?


[/QUOTE]

 

[fozzybear]

Well, well, well, the plot gets thicker.

It appears that Mark Duggan (man shot by Police in Tottenham) was the nephew of the late Desmond Noonan!!

Linky

Desmond Noonan's brother Dominic was seen at the Manchester riots chatting to looters.

So much for all these pathetic arguments and excuses to how this all started.

 

[Cosimo]

And your comment about a utopia is ******* (male genitals).

Only that comment?

 

[RoboCod]

A) a good chunk of them got rich off of the misery and work of others

B) a good chunk of them got rich off of earth resources which nobody owns

C) another chunk of them got rich through achieving NOTHING other than market manipulation and making others poorer.

You make it sound like all of them got wealthy through hard work and personal toil when nothing is farther from the truth.

As a Brit I know my heritage is one of slavery and theft from countries we took over militarily. Stole natural resources, gold diamonds (and I know we werent the only ones) Oil etc etc. We cannot sit back and say we deserve all we have as a nation when so much of it has come from the misery of others.

That is a ridiculous viewpoint and one that is easy to state now you're living in your cushy little armchair world. The world, including the developed world, was a much different place. You're away with the fairies, an idealist, and I'm afraid the world will never work like that,

 

[Dr Who]

You're away with the fairies, an idealist, and I'm afraid the world will never work like that,

Yeah I am an idealist, my ideas will never work as well as what we have now

Sure we are better off fighting a war on terror in Afghanistan and Looking fo regime change in Libya to get cheaper oil than sorting out issues we have at home. Far better to police the world than our home.

Billions and Billions on war against drugs that we have lost and still we keep on letting money go to criminals rather than tax and legalise something that is less dangerous than Tobacco and Alcohol.

You call me an idealist, I am a realist, when the world goes bankrupt we will see what happens.

 

[Tefal]

And your comment about a utopia is ******* (male genitals).

why is it?

look at all the idealists on here and their respective utopia's, each and every one requires some near magical even t or change to work.

usually a massive change in the way people act and everyone suddenly becoming unified under one ideal system.

I'm of the stance you can't design utopia.

 

[Logsi]

I'd happily pay more TAX if it genuinely benefited the country and we could see tangible results from it, I'm in a low income job and many people I know in a similar position have the same imo but ask anyone in a high income job if they would be willing to pay more taxes and they laugh in your face, why is it that I'm prepared to live a harder life to benefit society but many wealthy people are always of the attitude that they are hard done by?, perhaps someone could educate me? (seriously), perhaps it's that I don't hold money in such high esteem as many wealthy people do so I'm prepared to give up a little more?

But you're already giving more back if you're a high earner. Say if you were earning 100k that's 20k tax compared to someone on 20k who "only" pays 4k.

If you're earning that much you're putting a lot of work in or put a lot of work in to get to that position so to get taxed an incredible amount in my opinion is wrong. The bad thing is not all people put in the work to get to that point.

Surely you'd wince at getting nearly half your wages as tax if you were a high earner?

 

[Guile]

As a Brit I know my heritage is one of slavery and theft from countries we took over militarily. Stole natural resources, gold diamonds (and I know we werent the only ones) Oil etc etc. We cannot sit back and say we deserve all we have as a nation when so much of it has come from the misery of others.

Utter tosh.

If you actually read some history, foreign people benefitted from colonialism too in terms of medicine, law, technology, roads, rail, functioning states, security etc. Britain lost money by taking over these colonies from the private companies as they had to pay for soldiers to police the barbarous areas.

Most of colonialism was trade, not conquest. Also, Britain forced the African and Arab slave empires to stop trading slaves. The people most guilty for enslaving people and the Africans and Arabs contrary to your PC version of history.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

why is it?

look at all the idealists on here and their respective utopia's, each and every one requires some near magical even t or change to work.

usually a massive change in the way people act and everyone suddenly becoming unified under one ideal system.

I'm of the stance you can't design utopia.

It was testicles because I'm not trying to ascertain nor even design a utopia. I'm trying to discuss a solution to a problem, but others are just trying to win/troll on the internet with what they think are witicisms

EDIT: I'm trying to say I don't think it is an inherently flawed statement, I'm trying to say don't try to tar me with that brush, mister!

 

[Tefal]

It was testicles because I'm not trying to ascertain nor even design a utopia. I'm trying to discuss a solution to a problem, but others are just trying to win/troll on the internet with what they think are witicisms

well I answered your edit for you.

 

[StriderX]

Anyone want to bet the next 10 pages will be a pointless discussion over Utopia and Our imperial past?...

 

[Logsi]

I understand that but I'm still prepared give up more of what little I have and live a much less comfortable life style than the 60 percenters are, that's the point, tax is relative to your earnings, I'm suffering as much if not more in fact giving up more of my wages even though I'm paying less tax.

End of the day I think we should all be taxed more even low earners but we would need to see radical benefits from that.

Personally i have a radical idea of having 20% for everyone no matter what. Get in entrepreneurs and high earners from other countries. Become a kind tax haven of sorts and generate some revenue.

Crazy idea and probably wouldn't work though.

 

[Dr Who]

Utter tosh.

If you actually read some history, foreign people benefitted from colonialism too in terms of medicine, law, technology, roads, rail, functioning states, security etc. Britain lost money by taking over these colonies from the private companies as they had to pay for soldiers to police the barbarous areas.

Most of colonialism was trade, not conquest. Also, Britain forced the African and Arab slave empires to stop trading slaves. The people most guilty for enslaving people and the Africans and Arabs contrary to your PC version of history.

Ah yes the same old "we gave them law, railways, medicne blah blah blah"

That is the answer everytime we talk about colonialism, well you need to look further into what we earned from Americas, India, Iranian Oil, blah blah.

Our businesses made huge amounts of money from pillaging natural resources and using near slave labour to get them.

You are the one talking utter tosh, you show me how we benefitted these people in anyway compared to what they would have had should they have mined their own resources and sold them to us rather than us stealing them, using that money to buy what we arbitrarily put in place.

 

[RoboCod]

Yeah I am an idealist, my ideas will never work as well as what we have now

I just find it laughable when people like yourself bleat about how our big bad nasty empire got all rich.

 

[Dr Who]

Anyone want to bet the next 10 pages will be a pointless discussion over Utopia and Our imperial past?...

Possibly, but to look to the fuure you have to analyse what went wrong in the past and not make the same mistakes.

There will never be utopia until the world unites under one common govt, and that won't happen in our lifetimes.

 

[RoboCod]

You are the one talking utter tosh, you show me how we benefitted these people in anyway compared to what they would have had should they have mined their own resources and sold them to us rather than us stealing them, using that money to buy what we arbitrarily put in place.

What, you think those under developed nations actually had the ability and technology to extract those resources? We developed Irans oil fields from scratch!

 

[Mr Jack]

If you're earning that much you're putting a lot of work in or put a lot of work in to get to that position so to get taxed an incredible amount in my opinion is wrong. The bad thing is not all people put in the work to get to that point.

The bad thing is that the amount of reward is higher than the amount of different talent or skill. Many people on low wages also work hard.

Surely you'd wince at getting nearly half your wages as tax if you were a high earner?

The idea is to drive down the higher wages by aggressively taxing them.

 

[Dolph]

The bad thing is that the amount of reward is higher than the amount of different talent or skill. Many people on low wages also work hard.

If that is the case, then the market adjusts (with the exception of public sector wages which are rigged).

It also isn't about hard work as such, it's about the rarity of the work.

The idea is to drive down the higher wages by aggressively taxing them.

So it's punishment for success in your mind rather than taking property by force? Do you think that makes it any better?

 

[Dr Who]

I just find it laughable when people like yourself bleat about how our big bad nasty empire got all rich.

People like myself?

What exactly is a person like myself?

Someone who grew up on a council estate and worked his ass off to make himself a success? Ex armed forces? Spent 30 years working in banking and finance, including running my own business?

I laugh at you who thinks we are all good beneficial people who look after others interests to the deficit of our own. I refer to those people as deluded.

Anyway, you havent said anything worth arguing against, other than tried to contradict me with zero evidence. so clearly not worth discussing with.