Riots in Tottenham, London! (NO RACIST COMMENTS)

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I think Starkey hit the nail on the head. Its the culture thats the problem not the race. People are so afraid of what they can and can't say.
 
rare said:
I think Starkey hit the nail on the head. Its the culture thats the problem not the race. People are so afraid of what they can and can't say.
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True enough, but not found many sensible souces for where that culture has come from. It's certainly there and has come about, or at least i feel it has come about, incredibly quickly over the years.
 
No idea why he did. I don't care a great deal for the man or some of his previous views.

But it is the culture that is destructive, that of gangs, of violence, of crime, of drugs. This is my perception of what the destructive black gang culture has contributed to our society in the last 2 decades. I see no gain to society as a whole, no great contribution that it has made, only destructive. It has been pushed in to the foreground of our society through music, tv, film, fashion. It has been made to look desirable.

It is not.
 
Jokester said:
Because he's making the point that it isn't a race issue but a cultural issue, he specifically labours that point.
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And those two fools kept on trying to push him to slip up, they wanted him to slip up and make him come across as a racist. That bloke has more experience and respect than those three people beside him combined :mad:

Regarding hoodies
The hoodie took off in the 1970s, with several factors contributing to its success. Hip hop culture developed in New York City around this time, and the hoodie's element of instant anonymity, provided by the accessible hood, appealed to those with criminal intent.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoodie#cite_note-nyt-2High fashion also contributed during this era, as Norma Kamali and other high-profile designers embraced and glamorized the new clothing
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from wiki, yes they've been using hoodies since monk times but the criminal black culture hoody took off thanks to Hip hop
 
PermaBanned said:
By saying that black culture is bad and white culture is good? I get the point you're making, but you can't agree with him because his point is completely different.
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But he's not speaking about black culture, he's speaking about black gang culture, he makes that slip once about referring to it as black culture and then all reasoned argument goes out the window as the other three won't allow him to correct them and keep going on about black culture.
 
Jokester said:
But he's not speaking about black culture, he's speaking about black gang culture, he makes that slip once about referring to it as black culture and then all reasoned argument goes out the window as the other three won't allow him to correct them and keep going on about black culture.
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He doesn't attempt to correct them, because he didn't make a mistake. I agree with you - culture is the problem. But it's a culture that does not have race to blame for it, and i'm sorry but you're just projecting your own views onto the racist embarrassment that is David Starkey.

Lets not forget what was actually said, which was that 'the whites have become black'. He didn't alter that statement at any point, and it can't really be interpreted in more than one way.
 
David Starkey had good points but overall he worded it all wrong and it seems he didn't put any thought into how he would express these points before hand. Also with the way society is I would think it is a little to late for him to now properly explain what he meant.

I am a black and grew up in Hackney with many of these kinds as friend and family. There is a ''sub culture'' which mainly targets weak minded black youth from broken homes who also feel a sense of alienation in this country. Most of its influences stem from Afro Jamaican & African/Black American sub cultures in the form of yardie gang culture and American street culture with elements of English crime subculture.

It is definitely not exclusively black nor do even a tenth of black people are involved in this. David Starkey failed by calling it black culture.
 
PermaBanned said:
He doesn't attempt to correct them, because he didn't make a mistake. I agree with you - culture is the problem. But it's a culture that does not have race to blame for it, and i'm sorry but you're just projecting your own views onto the racist embarrassment that is David Starkey.

Lets not forget what was actually said, which was that 'the whites have become black'. He didn't alter that statement at any point, and it can't really be interpreted in more than one way.
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You listening to it too literally, when he says white has become black, he's speaking about how black gang culture is now becoming a wider norm within the young white communities as well, it's no longer just black gang culture but becoming a much greater issue of just gang culture within all disadvantaged youths.

He even refutes the point later in the interview (8min 50) but is shouted down by the others.

He's not the first person in the media to bring this up.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/sep/12/schools.society
 
If you think the gang culture we have now simply evolved from what we had in the past you are very wrong. The street youth of whatever colour sound more like Jamaicans than they do British. You get me and ting, yeah? You dissin me bredrins?

It's simplistic to call it black culture, but it's not totally incorrect (except politically) or wrong.
 
Jokester said:
You listening to it too literally, when he says white has become black, he's speaking about how black gang culture is now becoming a wider norm within the young white communities as well, it's no longer just black gang culture but becoming a much greater issue of just gang culture within all disadvantaged youths.

He even refutes the point later in the interview (8min 50) but is shouted down by the others.

He's not the first person in the media to bring this up.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/sep/12/schools.society
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To make an assumption about what he actually means you have to look at the man himself, and he really is an obnoxious little brat who goes into practically every interview asking himself 'who can i offend this time'. If he wanted to make the point you're making then he would have made it. What he actually said was racist and provocative and not intended to do anything productive at all.
 
Re: Starkey

The most offensive and ignorant part was when referring to David Lammy "if you turn the screen off, you would think he was white".
 
HamZilla said:
Re: Starkey

The most offensive and ignorant part was when referring to David Lammy "if you turn the screen off, you would think he was white".
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I am of the opinion that he is not a racist, I think he lacks debating skills and realisation that society and culture have changed in the last 40 years.
 
PermaBanned said:
To make an assumption about what he actually means you have to look at the man himself, and he really is an obnoxious little brat who goes into practically every interview asking himself 'who can i offend this time'. If he wanted to make the point you're making then he would have made it. What he actually said was racist and provocative and not intended to do anything productive at all.
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Sorry, he is clearly speaking about the gang culture here, to think otherwise is merely highlighting your prejudices towards Starkey himself.
 
We have created a society in which no-one is to blame and you cannot be critical of someones cultural background. Yet it is perfectly acceptable to praise Japanese culture for example, during the nuclear power plant crisis.

I would hate to see one Europe or even worse a one world with no borders. Pretending we are all exactly the same people that share the same values. It isn't in our human nature and it will never happen without brainwashing/genocide of those that don't share the same values.

Quite honestly I like visiting another country and experiancing the culture and the values of that people.
 
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