Female body builders, just why?

[G-MAN2004]

you'll end up looking a complete fool matey.

It's nothing new for him.

 

[King Damager]

Ok, so, to add my two cents...

I'll start of by saying that I've only read the 1st/2nd and 4th pages (Man Size pages so there are actually only 4 so far...) and a lot of what I say may have been addressed in the 3rd page.

I do however have serious objections to the concept that any average joe body builder - not Mr Olympia, must have taken steroids to get to where they are.

Plenty of people attain reasonably large and toned muscles, without being on steroids. Take a look at professional athletes.

Predominantly, they can't take steroids... because quite frankly they wouldn't be allowed to compete...

Some of these guys may well be on 'legal' supplements to help out, but they're certainly not heavy 'drug' users, and their legal supplements will be complementing a incredible natural dietary regime.

Go have a look at some pictures of:
Michael Phelps
Ryan Lochte
Harry Aikines-Aryeetey
Jess Ennis

The list goes on...

Now, admittedly, a lot of the female professional athletes don't have huge bulk, because they're doing a lot of cardio, but most professional athletes are hitting about 7-15% body fat depending on on/off-season. They have muscle definition galore...

Admittedly extreme 'professional' body builders I do think take it too far, but 'underwear' models etc... these 'pretty boys' that everyone is having issues with, and saying they take steroids etc... Some might, but don't presume just because you can't do it naturally that there aren't plenty of people out there who really focus on what they eat and really look into their own diet to end up looking like that...


kd

 

[Skillmister]

Says who? The protein companies that sponsor everything to do with bodybuilding?

How did they do it in the 60s then before it became commercialized on such a comical level? Steroids, milk, chicken, and beef.

From what I've learned the whole thing is a fraud. Everything is about protein powder and "genetics" and the latest fad training program from some guru.

It's like a giant pyramid scheme. On the top the bodybuilders are totally steroided up, they get paid by the protein companies, and of course say whatever they are told to get the teenagers and plebs to buy the protein and stuff in the hopes of getting big like that. It's essentially built on a giant lie.

"If you just do these many reps and buy this protein and my barely legal super pro-hormone bullcrap pills and train hard enough you can look just like me!"

They must be lolling all the way to the bank.

Well yeah.. This is common knowledge with anyone who does a bit of research on bodybuilding. And please, dont even try and say its only this sport that does it. What about all the different energy drinks/bars you can buy to 'improve your running'. What about the latest gold clubs that in reality make little to no difference to your shot but cost 10x more than the rest. What about the new latest 6 core processor that in the real world will be useless 99% of the time but is advertised as being an essential thing to have in your rig. Its the same for any sport or hobby, companies will try sell you things you dont really need.

 

[Banzai_Joe]

How did they do it in the 60s then before it became commercialized on such a comical level? Steroids, milk, chicken, and beef.

Yes, with fewer supplements and steroids. That's why they weren't the mass monsters we see today.

Any gym rat will also say that macro nutrients obtained from real food sources is the best way to go, but protein, amino supplements pack added value to your training/nutritional regime.

I could tell you how i actually gained lean muscle mass when on a high protein (mostly supplements, as an experiement), low carbs and low fats fiet and training routine......but would you believe me?
It wasn't even that scientific, i just replaced some of my main meals with a decent protein shake and dropped some bodyfat but gained lean mass. Some was admittedly water from the creatine.....oh, which also works wonders for me btw....not a lie!

 

[icecold]

To be fair to a lot on here a labourer (proper one that lugs paviers and sand all day) could very well get a physique similar the 4chan and bodybuild site example guy IF they also dieted and watched their body fat. There are plenty of young labourers that look like that. On the other hand the greased up "olympian" would never be able to get that soft of physique through manual labour.

So many people seem to be getting toned and bodybuilder (at least my definition) mixed up. Toned to me means 6pack and "nice" abs' arms and legs, nothing you would necessarliy look twice at with a t shirt on. On the other hand a bodybuilder is the know of guy that has arms the size of your neck, a neck the size of your waist and for some reason is generally short...
The former can easily be achieved out of the gym by manual labour, the latter no chance.

..

So a guy lifting relatively light loads all day with what is probably average nutrition will have the same size as a guy who is famous ONLY for developing his physique with steroids and years in the gym?

Seriously, how do people put this kind of BS together in their heads?

The size of a bodybuilder is irrelevant, the act of going to the gym to build your body defines the term. Conversely, you can be big without being a bodybuilder, take strongmen, powerlifters and gymnasts for example.

Says who? The protein companies that sponsor everything to do with bodybuilding?

How did they do it in the 60s then before it became commercialized on such a comical level? Steroids, milk, chicken, and beef.

From what I've learned the whole thing is a fraud. Everything is about protein powder and "genetics" and the latest fad training program from some guru.

It's like a giant pyramid scheme. On the top the bodybuilders are totally steroided up, they get paid by the protein companies, and of course say whatever they are told to get the teenagers and plebs to buy the protein and stuff in the hopes of getting big like that. It's essentially built on a giant lie.

"If you just do these many reps and buy this protein and my barely legal super pro-hormone bullcrap pills and train hard enough you can look just like me!"

They must be lolling all the way to the bank.

I really hope you're never responsible for anything important, as you seem to have the bizarrely arrogant assumption that you know about things when you've clearly made most of it up in your head.

All steroids do is increase your rate of protein synthesis. If your not eating enough protein, your rate of protein synthesis is capped at a rate that no amount of steroid/whatever supplementation can increase. Yes, it is possible to eat enough protein from regular food to sustain muscle growth, but it's dependant on how much you need (bigger muscles need more protein to stay the same size and not shrink). It's also very time consuming and expensive, for example to get 250g of protein I'd need to eat more than 8 chicken breasts a day, as well as other food to make sure I'm getting enough fat and carbs.

For the really huge guys, they need to consume crazy amounts of protein to grow. This means consuming lots of protien every few hours, which just isn't necessary for the average gym go-er.

 

[G-MAN2004]

To be fair to a lot on here a labourer (proper one that lugs paviers and sand all day) could very well get a physique similar the 4chan and bodybuild site example guy IF they also dieted and watched their body fat. There are plenty of young labourers that look like that.
..

I would love to see anyone achieve his body and maintain it all year round simply by doing manual labour.

Never happening.

 

[kwerk]

Well yeah.. This is common knowledge with anyone who does a bit of research on bodybuilding. And please, dont even try and say its only this sport that does it. What about all the different energy drinks/bars you can buy to 'improve your running'. What about the latest gold clubs that in reality make little to no difference to your shot but cost 10x more than the rest. What about the new latest 6 core processor that in the real world will be useless 99% of the time but is advertised as being an essential thing to have in your rig. Its the same for any sport or hobby, companies will try sell you things you dont really need.

I can't think of any other sport or hobby that is so susceptible to this phenomenon. Steroids are completely essential to the sport but it's ignored and glossed over and even made taboo.

To try and compare to golf it's like all the pros are using normal golf balls but the amateurs are all using balls filled with lead. Then the golfing tv shows and websites and magazines (funded by golf club sales) try to conceal this fact and suggest the only difference is the clubs

Can you really call yourself a golfer if it takes 40 strokes to get to the first hole? And you will NEVER get to the 18th hole.

Then all the amateurs who actually realize what is going on claim the pros are cheating, and that their lead ball way of doing it is somehow superior (but at the same time they spend hundreds of pounds on super duper golf clubs).

 

[Banzai_Joe]

I can't think of any other sport or hobby that is so susceptible to this phenomenon. Steroids are completely essential to the sport but it's ignored and glossed over and even made taboo.

This, i agree with you on, although not the term "completely essential", but it is the 'great unsaid' topic.
But in a 'natural' bodybuilding competition, you wouldn't use steroids, and there are plenty of them. Admittedly not as prominent as the big ones like the Olympia which obviously turns a blind eye to any kind of drug use/misuse.
But sadly, that's the busness......until the fans want to see more 'reasonable' sized competitors up there....it won't change.

 

[LiE]

There are plenty of natural pro bodybuilders.

 

[kwerk]

I would love to see anyone achieve his body and maintain it all year round simply by doing manual labour.

Never happening.

I think in parts of Africa there are guys who look like that just from doing labour.

Bottom pic looks like after he has dabbled with steroids, or maybe the shadow emphasis from overhead lighting.

Top left guy just looks like a swimmer, top right a gymnast. A developed upper body is easy to achieve from those activities. I wouldn't call either of them bodybuilders.

 

[GAC]

bottom guys a diver which is basicaly a gymnast so a lot of muscle and low body fat.

 

[Skillmister]

I think in parts of Africa there are guys who look like that just from doing labour.

Bottom pic looks like after he has dabbled with steroids, or maybe the shadow emphasis from overhead lighting.

Top left guy just looks like a swimmer, top right a gymnast. A developed upper body is easy to achieve from those activities. I wouldn't call either of them bodybuilders.

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7751/image7fz.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6324/hotmale2520swimmers1.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

And neither of those look like the above. Not to mention they will both do weight training. Please stop posting.

 

[Amp34]

"

So a guy lifting relatively light loads all day with what is probably average nutrition will have the same size as a guy who is famous ONLY for developing his physique with steroids and years in the gym?

Seriously, how do people put this kind of BS together in their heads?

The size of a bodybuilder is irrelevant, the act of going to the gym to build your body defines the term. Conversely, you can be big without being a bodybuilder, take strongmen, powerlifters and gymnasts for example.

Relatively light loads? Depends what you are doing. And yes someone lugging 20-50+KG weights around 8 hours a day 5 days a week for years can get a similar body shape to the picture IN THIS THREAD of the 4chan guy (I assume he is the one you mention? - is he famous?) The difference for a lot may be that they have a higher percentage of bodyfat (I'm not talking huge but just into double figures rather than 5-8%). Obviously someone wanting the bodyshape of Arnie will not be able to do it without dedication outside of a gym.

My definition of "toned" does not fit into your definition of bodybuilder then because "toned" to me is someone who spends say an hour on cardio and half an hour weights wanting to look and be all round fit. Having worked in a gym there is a massive difference (IMO) between those kind of people (general all round fit) and the meatheads who walk in and spend their entire time on the weights (the bodybuilders).

Oh and G-Man the man on the left in your first picture is similar to the body my dad used to have at around the age of 35-40 (except with a bit more gut I'll admit). He started out as a builder at about 17 and had never been to a gym. I have to wonder if people in these threads actually know what labouring is actually like... You can gain half a stone in a month easily (at least from average young male starting).

EDIT: I should point out that the guy on the right and in the second picture looks a lot bigger and you probably couldnt keep that on.

 

[G-MAN2004]

Oh and G-Man the man on the left in your first picture is similar to the body my dad used to have at around the age of 35-40 (except with a bit more gut I'll admit). He started out as a builder at about 17 and had never been to a gym. I have to wonder if people in these threads actually know what labouring is actually like...

Except I was obviously talking about the guy on the right (the one you've been talking about).

And I do know.

Ah, ninja edit.

 

[Amp34]

Except I was obviously talking about the guy on the right.

And I do know.

Ah, ninja edit.

See my edit.

You could have said before then. I agree with you totally in that respect.

Ninja edit yourself!

EDIT: So you would agree labouring would be able to get you the figure on the left but bodybuilding is pretty much the only way to get the figure on the right?

EDIT2:AHH! Your second ninka edit... Ok, well the guy does look more muscular in those shots IMO... Either way I've been talking about a body like the guy on the left which I remembered the other guy having (in my defence I did start reading this thread and make the first few posts on a phone).

 

[regulus]

There are plenty of natural pro bodybuilders.

Hehe. Not in the IFBB, the only federation that really matters. There is NO natural pro bodybuilders. NONE. Show me one that you think is natural so we can all have a heartily good laugh.

 

[shoes]

You compared the finished result to the training...

Having 24" arms, being 295lbs and 5% bodyfat, I'm amazed.

running 100m all day isn't amazing, it's plain dull.

strong logic.

Yeah fair point. In which case I am no longer amazed at any sporting achievement, as it's all down to a case of who trains the most, not who has the most talent.

Having 24" arms, being 285lbs and 5% bodyfat isn't amazing, it's just the result of a lot of boring, mundane training.

Bit like the x-factor I suppose - it's down to who's the easiest to sell, not who has the most talent.

Sport in general is dull, I occasionally like a bit of rugby and I like Motorsport a lot, but otherwise sport is generally mundane.

 

[cheets64]

Just get in the gym and lift or else "do you even lift?" "dat der celltech"

People do it for various reasons, some to stay fit and get strong, some to look good/show off.

Atleast they are not as bad as these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_fetishism

SSBHM (Super-Sized Big Handsome Man): an obese man, typically much larger than a BHM.

 

[kwerk]

All steroids do is increase your rate of protein synthesis. If your not eating enough protein, your rate of protein synthesis is capped at a rate that no amount of steroid/whatever supplementation can increase. Yes, it is possible to eat enough protein from regular food to sustain muscle growth, but it's dependant on how much you need (bigger muscles need more protein to stay the same size and not shrink). It's also very time consuming and expensive, for example to get 250g of protein I'd need to eat more than 8 chicken breasts a day, as well as other food to make sure I'm getting enough fat and carbs.

For the really huge guys, they need to consume crazy amounts of protein to grow. This means consuming lots of protien every few hours, which just isn't necessary for the average gym go-er.

Then why eat such a high amount without steroids? That was my point. Steroids are the key catalyst.

Who will gain the most muscle mass? Let's say they are identical twins both 80kg.

A drug-free guy eating 300 grams including as much as he wants of the most expensive protein powder (and any other supplement for that matter)?

A guy using steroids eating 150 grams of eggs, milk, beef, chicken and fish?

And 150g is very easy to achieve I regularly eat 100g in a single sitting when I smoke or grill meat.

 

[Skillmister]

Then why eat such a high amount without steroids? That was my point. Steroids are the key catalyst.

Who will gain the most muscle mass? Let's say they are identical twins both 80kg.

A drug-free guy eating 300 grams including as much as he wants of the most expensive protein powder (and any other supplement for that matter)?

A guy using steroids eating 150 grams of eggs, milk, beef, chicken and fish?

And 150g is very easy to achieve I regularly eat 100g in a single sitting when I smoke or grill meat.

Eating 100g of protein a day is quite different to eating 250g. Icecolds point still stands, getting so much protein without supplements is hard. Especially when it comes to being on a budget. Not everyone can afford to eat over a kilo of meat per day.

Why are you even trying to make a comparison out of that. Protein is protein it doesnt really matter what the source is. There are plenty of big guys who get 90% of their days protein from shakes, arent on steroids, and build just as much muscle as people who eat 'real' foods.