Soldato
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Fixed.
'The Union'
- Thread starter Uhtred
- Start date
Fixed.
I no longer live in Wales but I did for most of my life and I am half Welsh and feel similar. Scottish nationalists have for too long been giving the Welsh daft ideas.
I get annoyed by Scottish whining and hard luck stories though.
how's that?
Ah another anti-Scotland thread started by an English person, masquerading as the voice of the Scottish people.
I don't believe that even the SNP has as much of a desire for an independent Scotland as they used to. What they really want is to have more power and more freedom to make decisions for the Scottish people. In my opinion, part of the reason we haven't yet had a vote on independence is that the SNP know that if they lost it (which is quite likely as things stand), then they would instantly lose a lot of credibility. It would basically be the Scottish people saying, we like what you've done so far, but ultimately we don't want to go where you're trying to take us.
The problem the SNP have is that it would be damaging for them to backtrack on what has been their long-term goal, but also at the same time, they can't afford to be told by the electorate, that the country doesn't share their same ambitions. So for now, they have been dragging out the vote for as long as possible, while trying to lever more decision-making north of the border.
I don't believe that even the SNP has as much of a desire for an independent Scotland as they used to. What they really want is to have more power and more freedom to make decisions for the Scottish people. In my opinion, part of the reason we haven't yet had a vote on independence is that the SNP know that if they lost it (which is quite likely as things stand), then they would instantly lose a lot of credibility. It would basically be the Scottish people saying, we like what you've done so far, but ultimately we don't want to go where you're trying to take us.
The problem the SNP have is that it would be damaging for them to backtrack on what has been their long-term goal, but also at the same time, they can't afford to be told by the electorate, that the country doesn't share their same ambitions. So for now, they have been dragging out the vote for as long as possible, while trying to lever more decision-making north of the border.
I don't agree with the Op, but where has he claimed to be the voice of the Scottich people? His opening post even states "If there was a vote in England...".
Soldato
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Another case of the English sticking their nose into Scottish matters and stirring up trouble.
It just gets tiring seeing these same posts over and over, all making the same assumption that the Scottish people want independence.
As the OP also asked 'Why not just get it over with?'....I thought I'd point out:
a) why even the SNP aren't that keen to 'just get it over with', and
b) that just because people have voted for the SNP in Scotland, doesn't mean that they support the idea of independence.
If the OP wanted to discuss the idea of England voting for the break-up of the Union, then why not just make the thread about that? If that's what you want to discuss, why does an upcoming vote in Scotland have any relevance?
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There would definitely be a surge of independence nonsense from the likes of Plaid and their ilk.
I couldn't agree more, there are crap/boring posts on both sides of the argument, eddiemcgarrigle's being one of them. I was merely pointing out the innacuracy of your post. And Englishman claiming to be the voice of Scotland saying "we want independence" is granted ridiculous, an Englishman saying "I would vote to remove the union between England/Scotland" is something entirely different and well within his rights, even if you disagree with it.
As I said, he did not assume that Scottish people wanted independence. If you're going to jump on someone for not being accurate at least get it right yourself.
Because it does have relevance. It affects us all, and an upcoming vote in Scotland is a good opportunity to discuss how people the south side of the border might actually feel about the situation too?
Scottish independence is not your own selfish little bailiwick.
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It's not really just a Scottish matter though. Sure the vote eventually comes down to us but it would have repercussions for the English too.
What's that in response to? Seemed to come out of nowhere.
Thought that may have been the case.
If the UK is breaking up then the UK should discuss that. It's not a Scotland only decision.
What about the Welsh and Northern Irish? We are part of the United Kingdom too.
Sorry it was meant to be implied, I was making a direct response to ediemcgarrigle who only mentioned England in his post so did the same in mine.
I'm not sure what the implications of Scottish independence would be for NI but for Wales it would be bound to strengthen the resolve of the pro-independence groups there.
Fair enough.
It was more a comment aimed at the fact that these threads always end up with someone who's not from Scotland, trying to point out how the Scots want independence. Not necessarily the OP.
Just to be clear I agree that the break up of the Union affects us all, and I don't think that it should be decided purely by a vote in Scotland. I just meant that the topic of 'England getting rid of Scotland' only comes up because there is an assumption that Scotland wants independence.
So I was trying to say, don't let the upcoming vote here be the driving force for discussing whether England wants/needs Scotland.
If you want to discuss the break up of the Union, then it would be more useful to focus on the pro's and con's of the Union in general, rather than just as a response to something that's happening here.
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Soldato
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A direct response to an Englishman debunking the call for Scottish independence and starting the thread in the first place.
A random and irrelevant comment spurred solely by your own nationalism.
Also, if you want to be petty about the issue and use history as an excuse for promoting unending irrational prejudice, the Scots started it in 1138 by using an English civil war as an opportunity to invade England, seizing a large part of northern England and adding it to Scotland, then joining one side in the English civil war. You'd be hard pressed to find a more blatant example of one country interfering in another country's business and stirring up trouble.
England and Scotland have been linked for a very long time. That Scottish king was an uncle of one of the people claiming the English throne.
That was part of my point. The other part being that going back to the middle ages to blame England for everything (including numerous things that never actually happened) in order to promote irrational prejudice in the present and future is wildly inaccurate as well as ridiculous.