Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [21st - 26th October 2011]

Something needs to be done.

I said before that I was very concerned about the overall performance in the last few games, the entire team looked clueless.

It's bizarre in that it doesn't seem like we have a game plan, other than 'wait for Nani/Young/Rooney to do something and let XYZ score a tap in'. :(

Needs more Berbatov. :mad:
 
atpbx said:
Whats this?

So NOBODY can know anything about football unless they have played?
Unless they have proffesionaly had some part in the game NOBODY can possibly know better than someone who works in football?

Why is football different from every other industry is positively BURSTING with a history of outsiders coming in and revolutionizing how things are done?

Hmm?

Explain, please.
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Hey, thats my argument, I can't stand people who go with the "he's a manager, he knows more than you" argument. Which obviously means, because he's a manager, he's incapable of making mistakes, incapable of making emotional rather than critical decisions and anyone else who isn't a manager couldn't possibly have an alternative but still good way to do things.

I think Fergie has what Wenger has and thats, toolongitis. Theres clearly players at Arsenal and Utd which their respective managers have very dodgey opinions of. I can fully understand that if you bring a kid throught you might not want to get rid, of forgive major flaws with.

Evans shouldn't be at Utd, he's never been close to good enough, Diaby, with Wenger recently scaring the crap out of me by saying he's back in a few weeks, and could make a real impact because he's so good...... :rolleyes:

I think with Anderson Fergie has a fairly expensive player he's almost desparate not to be wrong over, with Fletcher you've got a hard working scottish player who has been with you for years(but is probably good enough for cover, not in a million years good enough for first team).

It does strike me that Fergie and Wenger make more odd calls on who starts in bigger games than most other managers, and the only real difference between managers, is length of time in job and attachment to players, something Mancini really doesn't have with his squad for instance.
 
I certainly don't think Fergie has a case of toolongitis, as mentioned above. His recent record domestically has been strong, and he's reached the last three of the last four CL finals.

It seems he's in rebuilding mode - getting rid of a number of long-standing senior players, whilst bringing in young and mid-level names. These things take time, and you rarely immediately click straight away. It takes time and tinkering to find out who can play with effectively with each other.

I agree that Welbeck hasn't been brilliant in recent weeks, and I was certainly surprised by seeing Johnny Evans starting. I don't think he's anywhere near finding the right team as of yet, and he could certainly have done with a couple of stronger midfielders and/or full-backs, but I expect them to finish first or second this season/

Man City are looking pretty strong at the moment with David Silva playing incredibly well. Very pleased that the likes of QPR, Norwich and others taking points off the big teams! Looks to be an eventful season at the top and bottom of the league for once!
 
RvP was too good this weekend, maybe overtook Owen as the 5th best striker in the league (I'm getting ahead of myself, I know)
 
Fergie has come out and said its his worst ever day (or was). Thing is the basel game could have been that, 2-0 and then nearly lose 3-2 at home. nearly lost to stoke. scraped a draw at Liverpool.

we didn't look good in any of our last few games.

I've tried to tell you all that our team isn't good enough and that we have been reliant on one or two big hitters for some time and yesterday it really showed and we got lit up by a stronger (physically and football ability) team.

fletcher is okay, but he isn't yaya toure. nor would he ever get close to the first team of city. this isn't because city have deep wallets - its simply because Fergie has man love for him and fails to buy great central midfielders squandering money.

what the hell is he doing with berbatov? You don't see city playing some 2 bit unproven strikers in a match like that. balotelli is a bit of a wildcard but he has ability that wellbeck has never shown. even though i didnt feel that wellbeck was awful or at all to blame.

Fergie needs to sort out his partnerships should be berba + rooney, with hernandez off the bench then wellbeck 4th choice.

what's all this wing play when Rooney and wellbeck are both to small to remotely trouble the city defenders - how many times have i said this? its fine when the opposition defenders fall over and give you a chance but you can't bank on this every week. if you don't want Rooney to drop deep let berba be the link.

hernandez and wellbeck are scorers/poachers and don't add much to the play. you can use their pace late on to exploit a tired defence - not great if you need to.play a possession game but great for counter attacking.


the issue is that this man utd team can't/don't play progressive and controlling possession football. we play direct we don't have the technique and quality across the team to provide truly dominate performances.

ultimately after 25 years and so many millions Fergie has to.man up and take the blame for not being able to build a team who can do this.
 
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dannyjo22 said:
Everton next, I fear for the thumping we are going to get when united bounce back from this defeat.
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to be fair Utd rarely (in the last few years anyway) play well at Goodison Park

Last season I seem to recall Utd being 2 or 3 up only to draw (and nearly lose in the 90th minute)

Hopefully vidic gets some more minutes in the CC this week and then leads the defence at the weekend
 
Not been the same team since the Chelsea game. Evans should be nowhere near the first team, I reckon we would have lost regardless of him being sent off but playing with 10 men did not help one bit. I was a bit baffled with Ferguson's decisions during the game. Well done to City, you provided Ferguson with a huge wake up call regarding our squad.
 
Good weekend to be a spurs fan!
We where far from out best, bassong is such a terrible defender, need King, Dawson or Gallas back ASAP!
Good to see Lennon back even if he was rusty and not at his best.
I would have played Parker and Sandro away from home, out midfield was very short.

QPR up next, think we can win that :)
 
The Running Man said:
When the camera panned to him in the first 5 minutes of the match it looked like he had ust literally crawled out of bed. I knew at that point that fergie had grown old.
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I'm not going to hammer him for the loss (although ultimately the tactics, squad, scouting personell, coaches, first team 11 and playing style are all his responsibility), but you just dont think the same as you get older.

I dont think having a assistant manager who is nothing but a yes man does him any favours either, he needs someone to stand up to him and say, "Sorry Boss, buts thats a stupid choice".

I dont think the argument that "Hey, we won the league last year everything is fine" holds any water either, it was a weak league, its not any better this year, it has TWO strong teams in it, ones us, and the other is City, and to be honest, if anybody other than us two win any of the domestic trophies on offer this season then both Fergie and Mancini should BOTH resign.
 
atpbx said:
I'm not going to hammer him for the loss (although ultimately the tactics, squad, scouting personell, coaches, first team 11 and playing style are all his responsibility), but you just dont think the same as you get older.

I dont think having a assistant manager who is nothing but a yes man does him any favours either, he needs someone to stand up to him and say, "Sorry Boss, buts thats a stupid choice".

I dont think the argument that "Hey, we won the league last year everything is fine" holds any water either, it was a weak league, its not any better this year, it has TWO strong teams in it, ones us, and the other is City, and to be honest, if anybody other than us two win any of the domestic trophies on offer this season then both Fergie and Mancini should BOTH resign.
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I sometimes wonder if Man Utd supporters ever enjoy supporting them? :p I'm sure supporters of any other team in the country would revel in winning the EPL/their respective league - You're actually making excuses for winning the league you realise?
 
yea but see, in his head- Fergie is closing this gap between US and barca. in my had the gap grew as they got better players to add to their squad.

barca already played great football - they just added more quality.

we played pretty stale last season for long parts of the season and won the league through the attrition of our rivals and won through consistency as opposed to style and panache.

we can't play, can't take corners. pretend we can do a passing game and pass the ball back to our half from deep within theirs, only to then re punt the ball 45 yards back up pitch. We are a gritty team, not a pretty team despite the money we have spent.

Fergie had had time and money but shows time and again, he is all fire and brimstone - he is not a tactical great nor the purveyor of passing football.
 
So? You're second in the Premier League, you have the second best goal difference in the league (and if you look before the weekend, prior to the freak result, your goal difference was even more impressive) and you generally do well in Europe. I've never understood why fans can't be happy with success, and you've had more success over the past twenty years than almost any other club anywhere!

I support a team who won their respective league in 2009 based on our competitors completely losing the plot and doing everything they possibly could to win games! Does that make it any less sweet? Hell no! :p

Obviously you're allowed to follow your team in any manner or through any eyes you see fit, and I wouldn't want to dictate otherwise, I just don't understand the negativity at being top of the pile in a set of leagues that's comprised of 92 teams!
 
dannyjo22 said:
That's history, today you have a much better squad than last year and we have a far worse team.
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lets just say thats debatable :), and even if its not that is still no reason at all that Utd couldnt stll lose away to Everton

toshj said:
Obviously you're allowed to follow your team in any manner or through any eyes you see fit, and I wouldn't want to dictate otherwise, I just don't understand the negativity at being top of the pile in a set of leagues that's comprised of 92 teams!
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1stly - Utd arent top of the pile currently. They may be champions, but thats now part of history really - its all about this season

but its mainly

2ndly - the manner of the defeat, the fact that a lot of fans saw it coming from previous games - but never guessed the magnitude, and the fact they are such bitter rivals from the same city all make it feel far worse than "3 points lost at home" - which after all is bad enough (and Im not even thinking about the loss of the 19 match unbeaten at home EPL record thats ended)
 
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its not even that we lost to city. if we had beaten either stoke or liverpool then it would hardly of mattered. but because we nearly lost both of those - then 3 points weren't available to us.

just playing so poorly - over and over again tells me something went wrong somewhere.
 
FrankJH said:
lets just say thats debatable :), and even if its not that is still no reason at all that Utd couldnt stll lose away to Everton


1stly - Utd arent top of the pile currently. They may be champions, but thats now part of history really - its all about this season

but its mainly

2ndly - the manner of the defeat, the fact that a lot of fans saw it coming from previous games - but never guessed the magnitude, and the fact they are such bitter rivals from the same city all make it feel far worse than "3 points lost at home" - which after all is bad enough (and Im not even thinking about the loss of the 19 match unbeaten at home EPL record thats ended)
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Sorry, I was focusing more on the comments about last season (ie. complaining despite winning the EPL, getting to the CL final, etc.).

I can completely understand the disgust at losing to bitter rivals, but I'd probably take heart by the facts that came out of yesterday's game (heaviest defeat at home since the 1930's, been on a 19 game undefeated home run, etc.).

I think it's more of a personal view on supporting a team - and yes, I'm well aware that I'm sound pretentious, sanctimonious and the rest :p - but I think a bit of perspective is needed. Similarly to the Wolves fans who went from calling for McCarthy's head to jumping around in celebration in the space of 8 minutes on Saturday. It's a season, not one game.

UTD are in a new phase in their growth. What has traditionally been a team with a strong core and few players joining the club (and remaining a first team regular), the club is now having to chop and change as that core grew old and retired. Of course it's going to take a while - Arsenal have been trying for 6 years and still haven't got it sorted! :D - but I wouldn't turn on a manager who won the EPL last season because it wasn't pretty and was stale, nor would I because the team currently sit in... Second!
 
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