Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [21st - 26th October 2011]
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Just because a gk judges correctly that a shot is missing (either just or by some margin) and hence doesnt move, doesnt automatically make it a very close thing that the defending team didnt just concede
Not sure how an non existant midfield and Silva's ability to control the game has any baring on Evans playing or the mistakes he makes
Because imo the position Silva plays so far up the pitch dictating the play in SOME instances is up to a strong centre half to deal with (which Evans blatantly isnt) - fully admit its mainly to do with terrible central midfield, but JE's judgement is awful , missing headers that Rio and Vidic get all the time and generally being weak
I guessed you missed the idea Rio cant play in (even a small string of )consistant matches anymore, as has been the case for a while
Utd need a consistant back four, once they are used to playing together all the time the defence will tighten up
I have seen plenty thank you - and I still reckon Rooney and Hernandez playing together AGAIN (for the multiple time) is going to be better than rooney and Welbeck getting to know each other (in such a high pressure /important game)
Carrick is technically out of position at Centre Half also (where he has played "plenty of times") - doesnt mean any fan in their right mind would want to see him playing there for Utd!! (mind you I dont particularly want to see Fletcher lining up in midfield against a top or mid table team currently either to be fair)
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I saw today that we've played 7 diffferent back fours in the league so far, no wonder we have conceded the most shots against our goal with that kind of lineup consistency.
We lack a playmaker in central midfield, all the top teams have at least one creative central midfielder pinging balls left right and centre, moving FORWARDS. We have Anderson who is the only player who moves forwards WITH the ball, Carrick who rarely looks forwards nevermind passes forwards, Fletcher a workhorse but little else, Gibson meh, and Cleverley who could be a very good prospect. That's it. That's all our central midfielders. We have players in abundance up front, plenty of defenders, good wingers. Our central midfield is appalling quite frankly and it's over exposing our current back five, some of which are young and will mature, and then two who really should be doing better, ie, Evra and Ferdinand.
The thing that really got me was not the defeat, I can accept that Man City simply took us apart and I hope the players learn from it, the words from Ferguson took me back a bit:
"I thought with the experience we've got - Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra - they would have defended more but we just kept attacking. Sometimes there has to be common sense about it. It was a bad day."
Why didn't he bark some orders out instead of watching it all unfold in front of him. Why did it take 20 minutes for Jones to come on after Evans was sent off? Baffling!
The thing that really got me was not the defeat, I can accept that Man City simply took us apart and I hope the players learn from it, the words from Ferguson took me back a bit:
"I thought with the experience we've got - Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra - they would have defended more but we just kept attacking. Sometimes there has to be common sense about it. It was a bad day."
Why didn't he bark some orders out instead of watching it all unfold in front of him. Why did it take 20 minutes for Jones to come on after Evans was sent off? Baffling!
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The ideal situation would be to ship out Carrick and Gibson and bring in a top quality playmaker and defensive midfielder. Then we'd have those two start with Anderson, Fletcher and Cleverley as squad players/future prospects. The problem is if we did bring someone in I think the only person to suffer would be Cleverley as Fergie would still use Carrick.
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maybe - i think we might have missed carrick on Sunday and you know it pains me to say that.
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Utd need a DM and a AMC, have done for ages, I love Scholes but since the IIRC, eye injury he's never been first team and certainly not at the top level for the past two seasons. Anderson, Carrick, Fletcher, do the job against less good teams, sure, against what is now, Chelsea, City, maybe Spurs, and even probably Newcastle in Tiote and Cabaye, those three simply aren't the quality required, not even close.
Diarra wouldn't be a bad call, defensive, good on the ball, keeps posession and is very under rated in getting the ball forward. Especially with Cleverley someone who is undroppable like Sneijder will only stop Cleverley playing, someone like Diarra can play alongside him and if he's injured, offers the option of a playing along a backup attacking mid, or even taking a more offensive role and having a backup DM come in.
Basically Utd really need, two real DM's and an AMC with Cleverley making 4 central midfielders, two first team, to backup.
Frankly, its looked increasingly likely for 2 years and potentially even without question now, you guys need a proper left back, Evra has been shocking, his going missing throughout that game but especially the final 10 minutes that turned a bad beat into a down right thrashing. He even did it against Arsenal, in Utd's best performance of the season he was the reason Arsenal had chances and got goals, being completely MIA over and over.
Diarra wouldn't be a bad call, defensive, good on the ball, keeps posession and is very under rated in getting the ball forward. Especially with Cleverley someone who is undroppable like Sneijder will only stop Cleverley playing, someone like Diarra can play alongside him and if he's injured, offers the option of a playing along a backup attacking mid, or even taking a more offensive role and having a backup DM come in.
Basically Utd really need, two real DM's and an AMC with Cleverley making 4 central midfielders, two first team, to backup.
Frankly, its looked increasingly likely for 2 years and potentially even without question now, you guys need a proper left back, Evra has been shocking, his going missing throughout that game but especially the final 10 minutes that turned a bad beat into a down right thrashing. He even did it against Arsenal, in Utd's best performance of the season he was the reason Arsenal had chances and got goals, being completely MIA over and over.
Well if that's the case then United came close to scoring plenty of times as well then, remember the awful shots on goals from Young, Fletcher and Park? No because they were rubbish. Liverpool had one real chance in the first half and only started battering the goal after Rooney & Nani came on.
Incorrect, when a team plays with 2 strikers as City did at the weekend it's not simply down to the 2 centre backs to deal with them 2 plus any other players that push into that area of the pitch. It's down to the full backs and/or midfielders to pick up their man. I'm sure prior to the game Fergie didn't sit the team down and say Rio & Evans pick up all 3 of Balotelli, Aguero and Silva intact you could see all game Anderson trying to match Silva's runs. Not excusing Evans' mistake in the build up for their opening goal or his part in his sending off but your original point is wrong
No I didn't miss the idea, just your way of getting to it was arse about face backwards
Firstly I don't think you can get all upitty at the notion that I'm questioning how many games you've actually seen this season when you've previously marked players based on a written report of a game. Secondly was yesterday's game anymore important Spurs at home the first home game of the season? Was it anymore important than Arsenal at home? The next game is always the most important (Everton next week for example is now more important than the City game) and Rooney and Welbeck have played plenty of times already this season so and this season that partnership has produced better results/performances than Rooney and Hernandez has. I'm really not sure why you simply cannot admit that Hernandez is not in great form at the moment
Carrick has started at centre back for the club twice. I've lost count of how many times Fletcher has started at right back. Totally different situation. Not to mention the blindingly obvious case that it's a hell of a lot easier for a midfielder to play full back than centre back
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the corner where Evans got a chance but the ball hit his standing foot raised questions about his football capability in my opinion. how he survived the wes brown cull i don't know.
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Everyone mishits shots sometimes, can't really blame a defender for that.
TBF 3 of their goals came after the 89th minute, not that that didn't give him enough time to give them a right rollocking from the touch line but like he said you'd of assumed once it went 1-4 the defence would have the common sense that they weren't going to pull back 3 goals in as many minutes and just keep the battering at a minimum.
Regarding the subs I don't think that was all that surprising personally. As I said Fletcher has played plenty of times at RB and given when Evans was sent off we were only 1-0 down I assume Fergie wanted to keep as many starting players on the pitch as possible. I guess he could have brought Jones on straight a way for Fletcher or Anderson and the formation would have stayed the same (i.e. Rooney in centre midfield with Welbeck up front on his own) but would it of made any difference? Maybe maybe not. Who knows.
you may get modric for £50m in jan, put an offer in or offer us £55m and we'll take carrick as part of the deal
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he didn't mishit his shot. he never even connected with it, it bounced back off his standing leg. so he can't even say he had to stretch to get it.
if i did that, then looked plain awful then got sent off, id be expecting flak tbh.
I'm relatively certain that despite winning, we'd have to still put up with those exact same 28 pages...
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only if we win badly !
The second Evans was sent off, Wellbeck should have been subbed with Jones going on. Four defenders, four midfielders with Rooney dropping back in midfield too. This playing players out of position is frustrating. Fletcher is a midfielder, unless we are struck with such an injury crisis that we are forced to play midfielders in defence then so be it, but it does not make any sense to be putting him at right back when Jones is on the bench.
Tactics wise, Ferguson could have told them to shape up. My guess is that he didn't want to be seen on the touchline telling his players to defend at home against City. Something that I'm sure City fans would have loved to see.
Like DM said above, Evra has been ****ing horrendous defensively for ages, he's literally forgotten how to defend.
The younger players will learn but I expected more from Evra and Ferdinand at the back, no discipline or calmness from either. If it wasn't for the twins being perpetually crocked, Evra would be collecting splinters on the bench this season.
Even though they have won loads of titles and a european cup since Keane left all of a sudden they need world class super human midfielder. Despite not having one for X seasons.
The area they whinge about moves season to season.
Perhaps they should actually ask questions on the United youth developement/coaches system because none of them that come through since the early 90's have been good enough.