Lowering Springs

[MeEsH BaKkA]

LOL what an absolute load of crap. My colt is down 50mm on springs near double the rate of stock ones. You know what, the handling/stability is improved almost beyond measure, compromise being the ride quality is terrible.

Are you seriously telling me unmatched springs and dampers are a better than matched?

Changing springs on there own is not a great idea due to all the bump and rebound set for the standard springs remain. Sure you may get "flat through the corners init" on the road but it promise you it will be less settled.

 

[andy_mk3]

I've had my Astra lowered 40mm for the past couple of years, standard shocks still, done 25k now, handles so much better than it did before, only downside to it is the inner tyre wear due to negative camber but it's only a minimal amount of wear.

As long as you're not cutting springs there's nothing wrong with lowering a car.

 

[NathWraith]

Lowering your car won't kill you. But it certainly won't make it handle better.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

I've had my Astra lowered 40mm for the past couple of years, standard shocks still, done 25k now, handles so much better than it did before, only downside to it is the inner tyre wear due to negative camber but it's only a minimal amount of wear.

As long as you're not cutting springs there's nothing wrong with lowering a car.

Your suspension geo is out yet you are claiming better handling? Neg camber is not desirable unless the car is set up for it, all you have is a car which corners flat due to harder springs and tires with a poor contact patch.

Lowering your car won't kill you. But it certainly won't make it handle better.

Very true, but it can contribute. I think people are forgetting the OP wants to fit second hand £25 springs from a different body car to his.

 

[Clarkey]

Are you seriously telling me unmatched springs and dampers are a better than matched?

Changing springs on there own is not a great idea due to all the bump and rebound set for the standard springs remain. Sure you may get "flat through the corners init" on the road but it promise you it will be less settled.

Less settled, what is that actually supposed to mean? You mean it will ride poorly? I already said it does. I've been tempted on occasion to get a set of AGX dampers for it, but they are marginally more expensive than the whole car cost me and I'm not entirely sure what benefit I would see. It would still fall short of your £1000 though.

 

[Matt82]

As long as you're not cutting springs there's nothing wrong with lowering a car.

whats bad about cutting springs?

 

[Clarkey]

Your suspension geo is out yet you are claiming better handling? Neg camber is not desirable unless the car is set up for it, all you have is a car which corners flat due to harder springs and tires with a poor contact patch.

Set up for it how? If you want to go around a corner fast then some camber is going to help improve contact patch in these situations. I'm running -2F -1.5R 0toe F+R, grips really good and doesn't have unusual shoulder wear. I've heard it bandied about that the camber will negatively affect initial turn-in, for me the steering response is very direct under all circumstances though.

You keep coming up with weak arguments as to why such modifications would be worse and definitely kill you, but people with actual experience with it say otherwise. Doesn't this tell you anything?

 

[Vespasian777]

Messing with the stability/handling of a car using the cheapest parts possible and used ones at that, what could go wrong?

I just felt this point might want emphasis. We don't want to lose a forum member.

 

[Matt82]

Set up for it how? If you want to go around a corner fast then some camber is going to help improve contact patch in these situations. I'm running -2F -1.5R 0toe F+R, grips really good and doesn't have unusual shoulder wear. I've heard it bandied about that the camber will negatively affect initial turn-in, for me the steering response is very direct under all circumstances though.

changing the camber on mine had a really minor change to turn in response... but made overall grip vary quite a bit

 

[andy_mk3]

Your suspension geo is out yet you are claiming better handling? Neg camber is not desirable unless the car is set up for it, all you have is a car which corners flat due to harder springs and tires with a poor contact patch.

Not really. I know it's nothing compared to spending a lot of money on coilovers etc and having it all properly set up. But compared to standard it drives much better.

You haven't driven my car so how can you say if it handles better or not? I'm not saying it handles amazingly but it is so much better over the standard set-up.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

A damper is constantly fighting against the spring, if the spring rate is too high (lowering springs tend to have higher rates) the damper cannot control the spring movement as well. This is not much of an issue on a smooth surface, but for example if you hit a mid corner bump the spring can end up making the wheel bounce as the damper can no longer control the spring movement.
Whilst the wheel is bouncing it has less grip as you can imagine, the wheel does not have to leave the ground but you can imagine the affect of the spring, well springing.

The reason cars feel like they handle better with hard springs is the lack of roll on turn in which makes steering response feel more crisp etc... But in reality it places more load on the tyres which more than likely are not aligned properly under load due to the sus geo being changed by the lowers car, I.e wishbones, camber etc...

 

[andy_mk3]

Well ATEOTD it's an astra not an F1 car so I'm really not too worried

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

Fair enough, but I would rather not play with my suspension just for looks. The people who change the springs for handling (I.e trackdays as stock suspension should not be an issue on public roads) should save for proper suspension as springs are a false economy.

 

[Matt82]

A damper is constantly fighting against the spring, if the spring rate is too high (lowering springs tend to have higher rates) the damper cannot control the spring movement as well. This is not much of an issue on a smooth surface, but for example if you hit a mid corner bump the spring can end up making the wheel bounce as the damper can no longer control the spring movement.
Whilst the wheel is bouncing it has less grip as you can imagine, the wheel does not have to leave the ground but you can imagine the affect of the spring, well springing.

The reason cars feel like they handle better with hard springs is the lack of roll on turn in which makes steering response feel more crisp etc... But in reality it places more load on the tyres which more than likely are not aligned properly under load due to the sus geo being changed by the lowers car, I.e wishbones, camber etc...

very good points well made.

 

[shoes]

By the sounds of it the car will be mildly more entertaining to drive if nothing else, which is what I'm going for. I am not looking for a street racing machine, I doubt the car would take it anyway, it's almost at 140k.

My main driving is my commute to work along A and B roads, which is what I'm looking to improve the handling for.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

Well assuming you shocks are 140k old as well or near enough, mating them to stiffer springs (especially if the rears are harder than the front) then blatting round A &B roads is a sure way to end up in a ditch, backward.

 

[Matt82]

i had a set of eibach coilovers once, they felt like they had no where near enough rebound damping on the front. there were honestly times when a compression in the road would be able to make the car leave the ground. really not good at high speed.

under damped springs can have very odd effects on cars

 

[shoes]

Well assuming you shocks are 140k old as well or near enough, mating them to stiffer springs (especially if the rears are harder than the front) then blatting round A &B roads is a sure way to end up in a ditch, backward.

Do shocks last this long? Must admit I thought the car would have been on a set other than the ones it was supplied with by now, I bought the car at 120k miles / 9 years old.

 

[NathWraith]

My main driving is my commute to work along A and B roads, which is what I'm looking to improve the handling for.

Then £25 old lowering springs are not what you are after.

 

[NathanE]

Changing the springs will require, at the least, further changes to damping and suspension geometry (i.e. especially camber).

Anything that alters ride height usually requires huge changes to almost every suspension setting.

My advice would be to save the cash and put it towards your next car.