Dinosaurs are not real :(

[D.P.]

The thing is with the 6000YO earth with fossils planted by God, radio active isotopes falsely adjusted, size of universe and time-of-flight of light etc., etc., all of this could well be faked from some super being if one wants to be so delusional.

However, I could equally say that the world was created 2 seconds ago by a super being and all objects placed in this exact arragement, all memories planted in all humans, every electron and sub-atomic particle placed in the exact current specification. Much like when you start a computer game and everything just appears already in motion.

You have absolutely no way to disprove that this didn't happen and the world is older than 2 seconds if absolutely everything is falsified. Thereforem if you accept the first conjecture that God made the world 6K years ago etc, then you have to accept that the universe could be created at any point. An absurd and pointless thing to beleive.


Furthermore, from a philisophiocal point of view you cannot proove that anything at all exists outside your imagination. Perhaps everything you see/hear/feel is just part of your imagination or dream. Think of the Matrix. Such a beleif is not very productive.

In summary the universe may have been generated 6K years ago and everything faked and set to fool us, it could also be generated 2 seconds in the same manner, or it may not even exist. Or we can just assume that the univese does exist and that no super being out there is trying to fool us, get on with out lives and let science pave the way to greater understanding.

 

[nikebee]

What i find interesting is that some of the most influential scientists of old or founders of modern science like Copernicus, Francis Bacon, kepler, Descartes,Pascal, Isaac Newton, Einstein etc contributed to science while believing in God. I believe Isaac Newton was devoutly religious.

I just thought I'd point out that the idea of Einstein being a religious person is still quite open to debate.

It seems to be that he didn't believe in a God as an almighty ruler and creator of everything, but more of a "personal God" - so Einstein would have been a believer in Deism or Theism.

 

[Delvis]

See, everyones getting confused...'God', is quite literally the big bang...The 'Big Bang' is 'God', everything after this was chance

 

[nikebee]

The thing is with the 6000YO earth with fossils planted by God, radio active isotopes falsely adjusted, size of universe and time-of-flight of light etc., etc., all of this could well be faked from some super being if one wants to be so delusional.

However, I could equally say that the world was created 2 seconds ago by a super being and all objects placed in this exact arragement, all memories planted in all humans, every electron and sub-atomic particle placed in the exact current specification. Much like when you start a computer game and everything just appears already in motion.

You have absolutely no way to disprove that this didn't happen and the world is older than 2 seconds if absolutely everything is falsified. Thereforem if you accept the first conjecture that God made the world 6K years ago etc, then you have to accept that the universe could be created at any point. An absurd and pointless thing to beleive.


Furthermore, from a philisophiocal point of view you cannot proove that anything at all exists outside your imagination. Perhaps everything you see/hear/feel is just part of your imagination or dream. Think of the Matrix. Such a beleif is not very productive.

In summary the universe may have been generated 6K years ago and everything faked and set to fool us, it could also be generated 2 seconds in the same manner, or it may not even exist. Or we can just assume that the univese does exist and that no super being out there is trying to fool us, get on with out lives and let science pave the way to greater understanding.

So essentially.... I should take the red pill, we'll stay in Wonderland and I can be shown how deep the rabbit-hole goes?

 

[nimz]

open the door get on the floor everybody walk the dinosaur!

Actual lol in the office, thanks

 

[redeye_uk]

I just thought I'd point out that the idea of Einstein being a religious person is still quite open to debate.

It seems to be that he didn't believe in a God as an almighty ruler and creator of everything, but more of a "personal God" - so Einstein would have been a believer in Deism or Theism.

I believe Einstein said something along the lines of

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends, which are nevertheless pretty childish.

a year before he died

 

[elmarko]

I just thought I'd point out that the idea of Einstein being a religious person is still quite open to debate.

It seems to be that he didn't believe in a God as an almighty ruler and creator of everything, but more of a "personal God" - so Einstein would have been a believer in Deism or Theism.

Einstein was a pantheist if I remember correctly.

He did not believe in spirits, souls or an afterlife or any specific deities.

 

[kedge]

evolution.

Also, I believe the studies on the use of the appendix that you're talking about have only been on rabbits and to a lesser extent rats.

Huh!, and your intelligence and that of others call those that believe in God ignorant, maybe you should take a closer look at the human body and it's workings and tell me exactly how in the links i provided it shows any rats?, lol.

All these natural phenomenas that you talk about can be explained by Science, there is no need for a deity anywhere.
It does not make a difference if all those Scientists were religious.

Science can often explain clearly how things work, what scientific evolutionists can not do is explain the origin of the universe, earth science and life science as a fact, only as a theory, which by the way gets picked apart by other scientists. I am aware most scientists do not consider a God but many if not all have faith, that is how the brain works, the point was that some of the greatest minds in science did consider and believe in God and wanted to know the mind of God. Many name call those that believe in God, calling us delusional, nutjobs etc, so do you also view those great scientists as delusional and nutjobs then?.

the fact that evolution isn't a theory anyway. It's an observation. Or, to be more precise, a multitude of observations. In layman's terms, evolution is a thing that happens. The theory of evolution is an explanation of how it happens. Two very different things.

Well, define evolution, because the molecules to man has never been observed, very little evolution as this one mentioned has ever been observed. I'm not ignorant and i keep an eye open for science and discovery, but i am aware there is only a theory of evolution like the one mentioned, and no actual factual evidence. i see this type of evolution as more of a philosophy that was propounded in the 1600-1800 time period, you know darwin, huxley period etc.

dinosoars are referred to in the bible in Job 40.

There is no mention of "dinosaurs" in the Holy Scriptures because the word dinosauria was invented in the 1800-1900 time period by Richard Owen


Were they terrible reptiles though, did anyone see them?

But i know what you mean about the Bible mentioning the behemoth and great sea monsters.

 

[valkia]

lolreligion.

+1

 

[Castiel]

I believe Einstein said something along the lines of



a year before he died

However, that is not to say he was an Atheist....which he denied vehemently on more than one occassion.

Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views

this sums up his spirituality more than anything I suspect.

I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism, but admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.

That statement almost defines my own beliefs....

 

[kedge]

I just thought I'd point out that the idea of Einstein being a religious person is still quite open to debate.

It seems to be that he didn't believe in a God as an almighty ruler and creator of everything, but more of a "personal God" - so Einstein would have been a believer in Deism or Theism.

Yeah i see, i personally don't really care if i'm honest, einstein once said he wanted to know the mind of God, wa this statement true?, who knows maybe in his later years he had other world views?. My belief in God does not rest on those great scientists that either were or were not believers it was just to point out to others that if they think those that believe in a God, a creator are delusional of crazy then they think that these great men of scince are too, which makes there powers of reasoning a little strange indeed.

 

[kedge]

+1

Some contribution that is mate.

 

[nikebee]

Actually, I'd like to take back what I said about Einstein believing in a personal God - it seems I hadn't had enough coffee this morning.

But my point still stands - he was unquestionably not a religious man in terms of an almighty ruler and creator of everything.

"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God."

He supposedly did believe that Jesus was a real person and presumably believed the stories surrounding him did happen (to some extent).

You can find different quotes from him at different times and interpret them in different ways. I'd almost go as far to say that he was agnostic.

 

[nikebee]

However, that is not to say he was an Atheist....which he denied vehemently on more than one occassion.



this sums up his spirituality more than anything I suspect.



That statement almost defines my own beliefs....

It seems I took so long replying to the thread, you pretty much posted the exact thing I just did

 

[nikebee]

But i know what you mean about the Bible mentioning the behemoth and great sea monsters.

For anyone wondering

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee;
he eateth grass as an ox.

16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins,
and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17 He moveth his tail like a cedar:
the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass;
his bones are like bars of iron.

19 He is the chief of the ways of God:
he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food,
where all the beasts of the field play.

21 He lieth under the shady trees,
in the covert of the reed, and fens.

22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow;
the willows of the brook compass him about.

23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not:
he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

24 He taketh it with his eyes:
his nose pierceth through snares

I always think that the Bible is a lot like the end of the world predictions or Nostradamus - it's written in such a way that it can be interpreted to mean absolutely anything you want.

 

[Castiel]

It seems I took so long replying to the thread, you pretty much posted the exact thing I just did

Don't worry, these questions get asked and the same claims get made every other week....you soon learn to simply counter them with the same 'off the shelf' response.

The really creative debates are in SC......they are more fun.

 

[mrk]

Yes all those prayers from parents of starving children, or those children who have been kidnapped and/or abused have been completely answered for as long as records depict!

Woo!

 

[Cosimo]

Yes all those prayers from parents of starving children, or those children who have been kidnapped and/or abused have been completely answered for as long as records depict!

Woo!

Hallelujah

 

[nikebee]

Yes all those prayers from parents of starving children, or those children who have been kidnapped and/or abused have been completely answered for as long as records depict!

Woo!

I always liked Bruce Almighty's answer to this question - as terrible as that movie is....

Anyway, for those that are wondering (probably not many) I'm an Athiest - but do enjoy a good debate about these things

 

[nikebee]

Don't worry, these questions get asked and the same claims get made every other week....you soon learn to simply counter them with the same 'off the shelf' response.

The really creative debates are in SC......they are more fun.

You know, for as long as I've been on OcUK (since 2007 !) I've never really bothered with SC much, I think maybe I should