to wire in a plug i call an electrician aswell, cant be to careful changing lightbulbs either
Electric Cooker Installation
- Thread starter lee1101
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to wire in a plug i call an electrician aswell, cant be to careful changing lightbulbs either
Soldato
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So just because it apparently isn't covered under the wiring regulations, doesn't mean to say it isn't covered under part p of the building regulations. It's still a flippin regulation be it wiring regs or building regs. You're wrong. Just admit it. I admitted my mistake earlier. Be a man and grow up.
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BS 7671 are the only regs you need to look at if you want to know what you are and are not allowed to do by LAW.
How am I wrong??? the Law is law and fact are facts I have not said anything wrong in the slightest I am an electrician I know exactly what the law is and you are someone who just made a statement thinking he was right and made himself look like a right pillock in the process and proved he didnt have a clue, and are trying to justfy yourself by looking through the internet and bringing up stuff that isn't required by law.
I have explained many times Part P is just a well known regulation (calls itself a law) that you can pay to get registered with and add to your credentials so you have an extra badge under your name and can save money in the long run by going through them to register your work at the same time, 95% of the regs under Part P are in BS7671, the other minority are Part P regs and not required by law but required to be certified by Part P.
If that was the case any old so and so could register with Part P without even taking a single test and call himself a qualified electrician (which is what cowboys used to do but now people are much more aware and I believe the registration has changed)
Just listen to yourself, you dont have a clue.
Like I have said many many times, what BS7671 says, goes, I have said what the law is and what is allowed, fact. End of.
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Soldato
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Ok, there is a few things we need to get straight here. My understanding is that the op has his cooker switch as pictured, then he has a 13A socket outlet round the back of his cooker used for the ignition. If the op wants to wire an electric cooker into this 13A socket, first he will need to remove it and confirm the wires inside are 6mm. If so, then he needs to buy a faceplate as linked HERE remove the socket outlet which is supplying the ignition and fit this faceplate in it's place. He can then buy some 6mm cable and run it from his cooker into the faceplate. Jobs a goodun. He could do the work himself as it's a simple job, but legally he needs it certifying by a competent person who is able to complete a minor electrical installations works certificate.
If the faceplate is already in place where the cooker resides, then he can just buy some 6mm cable and run it from the cooker and wire it into the faceplate behind the cooker. Job done and no need for certificates or notification to local authorities. (Because at a guess, it's not classed as fixed wiring but i could be wrong)
And just listen to yourself. By law, all homeowners and landlords must be able to prove that all electrical wiring meets Part P, or they will be committing a criminal offence. That is the law. End of.
If the faceplate is already in place where the cooker resides, then he can just buy some 6mm cable and run it from the cooker and wire it into the faceplate behind the cooker. Job done and no need for certificates or notification to local authorities. (Because at a guess, it's not classed as fixed wiring but i could be wrong)
And just listen to yourself. By law, all homeowners and landlords must be able to prove that all electrical wiring meets Part P, or they will be committing a criminal offence. That is the law. End of.
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Careful with those light switches too
I called an electrical company to change a 3A fuse once but they sent two electricians by mistake. Unfortunately all they did was argue about what was in the regulations about fuse changing.
They are still arguing downstairs, it has been three days now
Or just plug it in.
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The OP already has the cooker switch and cooker outlet in place (in this case the cooker outlet is fitted with a single plug socket), all he needs to is buy a cooker outlet to replace the plug socket that is there and hard wire the cooker cable (which should be already connected to the cooker) to it.... That is it, and he is perfectly allowed to do that by law.
If he doesn't have a clue about electrics however and isn't confident they by all means use an electrician, but he is perfectly allowed to do so by law. And is also very simple and just a matter of connecting the single set of red/green/black (or brown/gren/blue) cables in the wall to the other other set of 3 cables that come from the cooker via the cooker outlet which has 3 terminals one for each colour and labelled L(red/brown) E(green/copper) N(black/blue) and stick the faceplate on, much like a socket just bigger cables.
And dont try and use special words like 'ignition' to try and sound like you actually know what you are talking about because it makes you sound even more silly.
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Soldato
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What sounds so silly about ignition? That's what it's being used for at a guess. To ignite the gas burners or oven. Are you on your period or something? Being so snide. I still stand by my facts about needing a minor electrical installation works certificate if he is going to change the face plates over. I've posted references to it. It's there for all to see. OP make of it what you will.
That is fact. I am right and you are wrong so just give over. Oh, and do you really think i care if you're an electrician of x amount of years? Not a very good one at that. 6 years? You've barely left college. Mr know it all without giving black and white evidence. What a plonker.
I'm an electrician, but it's a trade you never stop learning. Sometimes you just have to accept defeat and admit you're wrong.
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What are you talking about, the cooker cable is to power the entire cooker.
You havent got any facts, you have looked at a requirment for Part P while that might be a fact is isnt law, 17th edition is the law and it is not under 17th edition that you need a certificate or permission to change a socket of fitting in the kitchen. Fact and law.
You are as clear as day wrong and talking bs and are now being childish, anyone can see that now. I finished college after 3 years more than 4 years ago, and don't care what you think if im good or not? Facts are facts law is law and I know what the facts and law is and have said it, you don't know and were wrong and slipped up multiple times looking like a right nob, you cant argue with the fact that you are perfectly allowed to change a fitting such as a docket in the kitchen withotu permission or certification.
This really did actually make me laugh, some people still think Elvis Presley is still alive too....
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Soldato
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The only person looking like a nob is you young man. Part p is part of the building regs. It's a requirement of law. Originally i thought it was under BS7671 but i was wrong in that. I edited my post because it was false. What i have left unedited is fact.
Where is your evidence backing up your imaginary facts? 4 hours we've been arguing and you still haven't provided any backup. I've posted mine, now it's your turn. Oh let me guess. I don't need to post evidence because it's a fact - OR- i don't need to prove myself to you.
Get over yourself.
Where is your evidence backing up your imaginary facts? 4 hours we've been arguing and you still haven't provided any backup. I've posted mine, now it's your turn. Oh let me guess. I don't need to post evidence because it's a fact - OR- i don't need to prove myself to you.
Get over yourself.
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** Removed ***
Part P is a regulation on its own, it is not part of building standards no matter what you have read on the internet and it is not required by law, Part P does include everything within 17th edition which is the law (you will still obviously need 17th edition to be qualified, part P is just a credential any one can pay for) but some extra safety regulations that are not required by law but required for Part P certification, such as the one you pointed out after a search on google.
If you had the slightest clue what you were talking about and really were an electrician you would know first hand the answer straigt away and wouldn't even be saying most the stuff you are let alone taking ages to search google and see what you can find on pages of the internet and make the facepalm mistakes and phrases/edits you did, all the facts are in the book of law which is the 17th edition British Standards 7671, Part P I have explained time and time again is just Part P, and what 17th edition says goes and is the law.
Under 17th edition regulations and law, you are allowed to change a fitting in your kitchen such as a socket without the need for permission or certification.
If you wasn't allowed then it would list it under 'Additional alterations to an installation' or 'Alterations and additions to an installation'
And it doesn't because you are perfectly allowed to do it.
The proof is the fact and law in the bs7671
All you have done is look on the internet and posted a few pictures of a book which is written by someone and is 7671/part p guide for dummys and not the law but a book that makes it easy to understan part p and 17th edition that is not proof *facepalm* that is just proof that Part P has a certain regulation. The proof is the fact that by law and 17th edition requirements you are allowed to change a fitting in the kitchen.... you cant argue against it because thats just the way it is.
Now ill stop running in circles because its clear to everyone you are just talking out your ass and dont really know youself.
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It counts as 'Additional alterations to an installation' or 'Alterations and additions to an installation' under BS7671
And as it isn't interfering with the actual installation in anyway and just changing a socket, and isn't listed or regulated you are allowed to do it.
And as it isn't interfering with the actual installation in anyway and just changing a socket, and isn't listed or regulated you are allowed to do it.
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Whats funny is it takes him about half an hour to go and search the internet about what ever he can find to try and justify his false statement, then comes back posting nonsense and quotes pretending he is an electrician *facepalm*
If he was and he actually knew what hes talking about (which he laughably doesnt) and to say he was right (although he is completely wrong), he would reply instantly and know exactly what he's talking about and never refer to anything but the law and regs, not a book published by an electrician he found on the internet that is a dummies guide to 17th edition and part p.
If he was and he actually knew what hes talking about (which he laughably doesnt) and to say he was right (although he is completely wrong), he would reply instantly and know exactly what he's talking about and never refer to anything but the law and regs, not a book published by an electrician he found on the internet that is a dummies guide to 17th edition and part p.
Soldato
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I searched on the internet to provide proof to shut you up. You obviously have a problem with someone trying to provide extra weight to back up their claims, but so what if i did? At least i have done which is more than what you've done. I don't claim to know everything like you do, and i'll openly admit if i'm wrong. Anyone who does claim to know it all is FOS.
Proof or GTFO. I'm gonna request a name change for myself to Bull****sniffer especially for you.
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You didnt provide any proof that by law you aren't allowed to change a fitting in the kitchen, you just provided proof that under Part P regulations you need a minor work certification, which is just to to be Part P certified and separate and nothing to do with the actual law which is British Standards IEE Wiring regulations 7671 (17th edition).
I havent claimed anything, I have just said the way it is and the fact that you are allowed to change a fitting in your kitchen.. how is that so hard to believe? its a fact and under the law.
I have explained how the book of law works and that is my proof... what do you want? Its like saying can you prove that I am allowed to put a plug into a socket? ofcourse you cant because thats not how the book of law works, you proof would be not finding it regulated in the book which it isn't as it isnt a regulation.
If you aren't allowed to do something, or have to do something in a certain way, then that is law and it is regulated in 17th edition BS7671. If you are allowed to do something and there is no regulation for it then it isn't in the regulation book otherwise the book would be absolutely huge and this is how law/regulation books work... seriously come on.
For you to prove your statement that you aren't allowed to change a fitting such as a plug socket in the kitchen you have to find in BS7671 where it stated that regulation, but you cant because it doesn't exist and you are fully allowed to do so.
Posting a picture of a Part P regulation that isnt in the 17th edition is not proof that you cant by law change a fitting in the kitchen.. thats just proving that you cant under Part P do so and there for it wont be Part P certified which is just a separate regulation not required by law, but it will be under the law which is BS7671.
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^^^^^
While you 2 are arguing amongst yourselves, i'll answer the OP's question.
A dual fuel double oven normally has 4 gas burners on top, an electric grill/oven under the burners and a main electric oven at the bottom. If that is the case with your new cooker, then you need to do the following:
1)Isolate the cooker switch on the fuseboard.
2)Remove the single socket and check that the cable feeding it is 6mm T&E. If it's 2.5mm T&E, then replace it with 6mm T&E.
3)Fit a cooker outlet plate in place of the single socket, along with about 2m of 6mm T&E to connect to your new cooker.
4)Connect the gas bayonet to the gas wall plate.
If your new cooker has a gas grill/top oven, just plug it into the socket and connect the gas as in (4).
ALL double ovens need a 30/40 amp supply because of course you can use both ovens at the same time and the 2 together will pull more than 13 amps.
But if the top oven/grill is gas, you then only have a single electric oven and therefore only need a 13 amp supply (normal single socket).
While you 2 are arguing amongst yourselves, i'll answer the OP's question.
A dual fuel double oven normally has 4 gas burners on top, an electric grill/oven under the burners and a main electric oven at the bottom. If that is the case with your new cooker, then you need to do the following:
1)Isolate the cooker switch on the fuseboard.
2)Remove the single socket and check that the cable feeding it is 6mm T&E. If it's 2.5mm T&E, then replace it with 6mm T&E.
3)Fit a cooker outlet plate in place of the single socket, along with about 2m of 6mm T&E to connect to your new cooker.
4)Connect the gas bayonet to the gas wall plate.
If your new cooker has a gas grill/top oven, just plug it into the socket and connect the gas as in (4).
ALL double ovens need a 30/40 amp supply because of course you can use both ovens at the same time and the 2 together will pull more than 13 amps.
But if the top oven/grill is gas, you then only have a single electric oven and therefore only need a 13 amp supply (normal single socket).
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Not really sure if i should wade into this tbh but...
17th ed isn't law - non statutory, you can feel free to ignore the entire book if you feel like it, just wouldn't look good if something happens and you end up in court.
To paraphrase its says something along the lines of 'you don't need to comply with these guidelines you can use alternative methods to provide equivalent levels or safety' & 'complying with these guidelines does not guarantee complying with the law'
It even says in the book and multiple questions in the exam about its legal status. If i remember correctly the statutes coving this are EWAR and a few others.
PS.
I think the confusion seems to be coming from who is actually doing the work.
DIY - just make it work and its all good.
Spark no.1 - Just make it work, quick job minimum hassle.
Spark no.2 - Do everything to make sure its safe and make sure their ass is fully covered.
Just depends on how you wanna play it tbh.
17th ed isn't law - non statutory, you can feel free to ignore the entire book if you feel like it, just wouldn't look good if something happens and you end up in court.
To paraphrase its says something along the lines of 'you don't need to comply with these guidelines you can use alternative methods to provide equivalent levels or safety' & 'complying with these guidelines does not guarantee complying with the law'
It even says in the book and multiple questions in the exam about its legal status. If i remember correctly the statutes coving this are EWAR and a few others.
PS.
I think the confusion seems to be coming from who is actually doing the work.
DIY - just make it work and its all good.
Spark no.1 - Just make it work, quick job minimum hassle.
Spark no.2 - Do everything to make sure its safe and make sure their ass is fully covered.
Just depends on how you wanna play it tbh.
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Thank you very helpful. This thread has gone a bit mad