**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

Greenja said:
What resources do you guys use to improve your play? I've recently started playing and i'm looking for all the help I can get.

I asked a similar question a couple pages back and got a link to a team liquid wiki which is pretty good, just seeing what else people come up with :)

Things like specific forums, youtube channels, strategy sites etc is the kind of thing i'm thinking.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/

Find somebody who plays your race, then watch and learn. As a Protoss myself I like to watch Grubby, White-Ra, EGinControl who are streaming most nights (UK time), and then some of the Korean players like Puzzle, Alicia whenever they are on. The first three in particular are the kind of streamers you want to be looking at because they tend to explain what they're doing, why they go for certain tactics, why they lost a particular game etc. Somebody that's just insanely good at the game but doesn't interact with their viewers isn't really going to help you improve as much (though still has its merits).

Day[9] is obviously the top choice for somebody dedicated to making you better, but watching games from a player's point of view is invaluable I've found. I'd also say his Newbie Tuesdays have staled a bit recently (he'll use a pro match and just say what we should be copying from them to improve ourselves), so although they are still worth watching and can maybe be more helpful depending on the individual, his earlier ones are where you should start.
 
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SheepBeast said:
Agreed with this. Send your first stalker to go and irritate the enemy's marines and give you free scouting and meanwhile expo and macro up. Pull back as soon as you see a marauder. If there aren't any marauders he's probably going cloak banshee or something.
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Thanks for the replies guys. I've been thinking about it and a couple of cannons plus a zealot and sentry can hopefully hold off against the 4 gate. And depending on the map, if I can scout it with my first probe and see the 4gate on the way, I can stick down a couple of extra cannons, delay everything a little, but I'll have my expansion up far sooner than him and can hopefully macro my way out.

But yeah, against T I'll probably stick with a normal gateway first, go towards robo and colossus. Though with the new phoenix buff I might start building them as I never used to before. I'm just not all that good with micro, and so lifting units and so on while in a battle is one extra thing I'd have to deal with. But that's something I'll gain with skill, eventually!
 
I guess it's up to you, but I've never really considered "more cannons" as a solution to trouble expanding early. Firstly you're delaying your own warpgate research and gateway units in favour of an early forge, and then you're relying on static defense to hold a push of units that can very easily retreat without dying - he can then get himself blink or a warp prism to complete take your cannons out of the game, and there's nothing you can do at that point as you won't have the capability to defend.

Being an expansion ahead of an opponent does not mean you are in a better position than them. If I were to play you right now, you scouted me 4-gating and built 4 cannons at your natural, I pushed with my first warp-in but decided to retreat and expand myself (and I would expand - there is absolutely no way you can prevent me getting up an expansion 100% safely with the number of units you'd have) I'd come out of it with more units, the same number of probes, and much more unit production ability - the only advantage you'd have would be a possible +1 upgrade. I don't think I've ever seen a top level player FFE in a PvP. They don't expand until they know there's no all-in.
 
PaddyMC89 said:
I guess it's up to you, but I've never really considered "more cannons" as a solution to trouble expanding early. Firstly you're delaying your own warpgate research and gateway units in favour of an early forge, and then you're relying on static defense to hold a push of units that can very easily retreat without dying - he can then get himself blink or a warp prism to complete take your cannons out of the game, and there's nothing you can do at that point as you won't have the capability to defend.

Being an expansion ahead of an opponent does not mean you are in a better position than them. If I were to play you right now, you scouted me 4-gating and built 4 cannons at your natural, I pushed with my first warp-in but decided to retreat and expand myself (and I would expand - there is absolutely no way you can prevent me getting up an expansion 100% safely with the number of units you'd have) I'd come out of it with more units, the same number of probes, and much more unit production ability - the only advantage you'd have would be a possible +1 upgrade. I don't think I've ever seen a top level player FFE in a PvP. They don't expand until they know there's no all-in.
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True. That's probably more of my previous turtling from other RTS' kicking in again. Possibly delay the nexus and get a second gate as part of the wall in, chrono out defence units while keeping a couple of canons. Would lead to a better late game perhaps.
I'm currently laddering up to my actual skill level, my macro is pretty terrible from not playing much SC2 for a few months, but I've won 3 placement matches so far pretty easily with the build, but I'm thinking that's because I'm against bronze players, not because I'm good with the build XD
 
I don't think I'll be using the build against Terran. For Protoss it would be to try and funnel any units around to a predicted area. Early game, which is the only time there would be an issue, he would have zealots and some stalkers, which I would hope keeps my natural protected enough. Of course, this could all fail horribly, but isn't that what finding a build and refining it is all about?
 
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D:

Looks like I'm going to loose the next 50 games until I'm back in silver league again ;_;

Edit: Glad I went FFE though since in that game (he played as random), since he turned out to be a P who tried to DT rush me. Yay cannon! :D
 
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lol ffe vs random? Should never do that tbh.. only good vs zerg. Any other race theres like a 90% change they will lose. You will see now your in plat :P
 
Tune said:
lol ffe vs random? Should never do that tbh.. only good vs zerg. Any other race theres like a 90% change they will lose. You will see now your in plat :P
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I wouldn't normally, but I'm currently at a stage where I just want to play it against people to refine the build, and though that with a random they are not going to be fantastic with all 3 races, so I could beat someone who was average with a build which I knew how to do and get the advantage that way.

And I just fluked it that he DT rushed XD
 
iviv said:
But yeah, against T I'll probably stick with a normal gateway first, go towards robo and colossus. Though with the new phoenix buff I might start building them as I never used to before. I'm just not all that good with micro, and so lifting units and so on while in a battle is one extra thing I'd have to deal with. But that's something I'll gain with skill, eventually!
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Phoenixes vs terran are pretty meh. The only use is to lift tanks up and not many people get tanks in TvP. They're much more useful in PvZ
 
Yeah, I've just never really used them before since I preferred Stalkers since they can deal with both ground and air units, and don't need the same scale of micro, besides the usual blink micro to keep them alive, but since they are the main part of an army anyway, you're going to be doing that anyway. Though I do know that I should really be using them since it creates more targets, they are harder to counter, and they are from a seperate production building so you can make them and also get the gateway units as well and max out faster.

I just need lots and lots more practice :(
 
Stephano's arrogance is so funny! The kids got some serious skills though!

@booyaka, I'd love to do it again another night, was really fun :D you really saved us the first game when I got rather behind due to that mass muta ball lol! I've noticed though since I played along side you the other night the error of my builds and now I've improved my macro so you should have a stronger team mate ;)
 
that first game was so funny it was unreal - they had us dead and buried and decide to expand on mass rather than killing us off. The good old MMM ball of death cleaned up.
 
Just played a 2v2 random game. We got attacked at about 7min by mass marine and mass zergling and my terran ally just instaquit upon seeing the enemy's army. Little did he know my micro is boss and I (just barely) managed to hold off the attack, only losing my expo and ~5 probes. I proceeded to tech up to colossi and harass the enemy with blink stalkers and proxy zealots before mass expanding and getting a huge colossi ball while denying enemy expos. Ended up winning the game :D was one of the best comebacks I've managed. It ****es me off though that my crappy ally who quit at the start gets just as many points as I do for that game. He literally did nothing. Just had a handful of marines which were useless to me anyway. Blizzard should make it that if you aren't in a team game for more than half of the duration of the game, you get no points for it and the win doesn't count towards your portraits. This would prevent portrait farmers instaquitting infiinite games and collecting free wins from their allies.
 
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