**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****
- Thread starter mohawk
- Start date
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 2,176
- Location
- EU...
Ladder anxiety is meh. What are you afraid of? You'll lose? It doesn't matter how good you get, you're always gonna have the same win rate ~55% so if you're so afraid of losing maybe this is the wrong game. "Losing" is a deceptive term. You may have lost a few ladder points but you have gained some valuable insight into the weaknesses of your gameplay, which you can improve upon. I find I learn very little from games which I win.
The key to enjoying 1v1 ladder is not to get annoyed when you lose, but to view it as a friendly learning experience. Like if you are getting taught by a teacher and they beat you, you would look back at the game and think "what did i do wrong which caused me to lose?". I view my opponents on the ladder not as opponents, but training partners.
Obviously there are some douchebags who BM you all game long and manage to steal a win by cheesing. These people deserve no less than sodomy with a pineapple. But they exist not just in SC2, but in all areas of life, and ignoring them is the best strategy as otherwise they will just say "umad?" to which you have NO good response, since you are indeed (justifiably) mad.
The key to enjoying 1v1 ladder is not to get annoyed when you lose, but to view it as a friendly learning experience. Like if you are getting taught by a teacher and they beat you, you would look back at the game and think "what did i do wrong which caused me to lose?". I view my opponents on the ladder not as opponents, but training partners.
Obviously there are some douchebags who BM you all game long and manage to steal a win by cheesing. These people deserve no less than sodomy with a pineapple. But they exist not just in SC2, but in all areas of life, and ignoring them is the best strategy as otherwise they will just say "umad?" to which you have NO good response, since you are indeed (justifiably) mad.
Last edited:
Well I don't really play to win more to have fun but its hard to enjoy a game when your out in 10 mins or less all the time. I guess that's where am going wrong, repeating what the pros do doesn't work so well in lower leagues I guess.
Best way to understand the game is not to copy what pros do, but just experience - like SheepBeast said, losing is the best way to go about this. Once you've lost to every type of cheese, you will learn approximately what time it'll come at, what shuts it down, where he'll be vulnerable, if it has any follow up (most cheesers below platinum league have VERY poor followup should they fail).
I have bad 1v1 anxiety since I got into masters league awhile back (seriously loads on the pressure), slowly coming back to SC2 - I need to lose lots and lots before I get my game sense and confidence back, as do you. Sometimes it's hard to just tap out without raging, but just force that GG, watch replay and see what went wrong.
Always be mannered, it's easier to accept defeat if they're mannered back.
I have bad 1v1 anxiety since I got into masters league awhile back (seriously loads on the pressure), slowly coming back to SC2 - I need to lose lots and lots before I get my game sense and confidence back, as do you. Sometimes it's hard to just tap out without raging, but just force that GG, watch replay and see what went wrong.
Always be mannered, it's easier to accept defeat if they're mannered back.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2010
- Posts
- 4,184
Interesting reading, thanks for all the tips guys. I'll finish the campaign then skirmish with my flat mate. Quite sad I never played the original as I'm loving the game so far.
Associate
- Joined
- 11 Jun 2008
- Posts
- 1,276
- Location
- Stuck on the A406
Anyone got any Zerg tips?
Ive just started playing multiplayer after completing the campaign, finding it hard. Bronze league at the moment.
I play a zergling/baneling/mutalisk combo which I find enjoyable, but I find it hard against players who "wall-in" well a tough game, even when I have map control.
Often Ill have 4 bases to my opponents 2 (which I cant break into), and they will just then waltz across the map with a massive army which my army dies to. I try to rebuild quick using built up larvae but it almost never works out and everything dies, even if I build the correct "counter" units.
I hate the "turtling" playstyle, so I really like zerg and banelings in particular - so much fun blowing stuff up. Id like to get good at this race.
I see Broodlords could be a way of busting into an opponents base but they are slow and take ages to get....are there any other options?
Any help appreciated.
Ive just started playing multiplayer after completing the campaign, finding it hard. Bronze league at the moment.
I play a zergling/baneling/mutalisk combo which I find enjoyable, but I find it hard against players who "wall-in" well a tough game, even when I have map control.
Often Ill have 4 bases to my opponents 2 (which I cant break into), and they will just then waltz across the map with a massive army which my army dies to. I try to rebuild quick using built up larvae but it almost never works out and everything dies, even if I build the correct "counter" units.
I hate the "turtling" playstyle, so I really like zerg and banelings in particular - so much fun blowing stuff up. Id like to get good at this race.
I see Broodlords could be a way of busting into an opponents base but they are slow and take ages to get....are there any other options?
Any help appreciated.
If you're getting mutalisks in your build, you have to make sure you're efficient in harassing with them - otherwise they are a wasted investment. Mutalisks generally suck hard in a straight up fight, you have to do as much damage with them economically like flying into his mineral line, keep poking and taking out SCV's.
A better way to do this is to distract him at the front with zerglings/banelings to lure his marines, that way your mutas have free reign around the back.
Also if you have 4 bases to his 2, make sure you're maxed out - that's your primary focus if you have map control. Don't forget injects, pre-emptivly get the tech unit that's going to annihilate your opponent depending on what he's got so when your main army dies you max out on those and crush him - though don't lose all your army of basic units, just enough so you can re-max with say broodlords.
Infestors i'd say are a MUST to get around the 10-15 min mark (get them earlier vs Terran imo) that will sustain you in the mid game, you can force map control with them long enough til you have your desired units.
A better way to do this is to distract him at the front with zerglings/banelings to lure his marines, that way your mutas have free reign around the back.
Also if you have 4 bases to his 2, make sure you're maxed out - that's your primary focus if you have map control. Don't forget injects, pre-emptivly get the tech unit that's going to annihilate your opponent depending on what he's got so when your main army dies you max out on those and crush him - though don't lose all your army of basic units, just enough so you can re-max with say broodlords.
Infestors i'd say are a MUST to get around the 10-15 min mark (get them earlier vs Terran imo) that will sustain you in the mid game, you can force map control with them long enough til you have your desired units.
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 2,176
- Location
- EU...
Few tips: (for ZvT. Can't help with ZvP)
- mutalisks should never be idle. If your opponents army is in his natural, go harass his main, if it's in his main go harass his natural etc. If he's really turtled up with turrets, then just patrol your mutas around the map, keeping map control and preventing any drops from reaching your base. In my experience as a terran, I feel very vulnerable if there is a large ball of mutas constantly poking in and out and will likely be very late taking a 3rd base. This is your opportunity to get a better economy than me.
- however, don't over invest in mutas. If he's got lots of turrets, then stop building once you get about 10, as that's all you need to pick off tanks etc when he moves out. Never under any circumstances get more than about 20. When I see a ball of ~30 mutas I just move out with my army and 99% of the time I'll win, because they don't have enough of a ground army to kill my marines, which then massacre the mutas.
- most of the time, the first big engagement when the terran moves out will result in all your army dying. This doesn't really matter as you should have enough larvae to max out again instantly, assuming he's doing a 2-base 200/200 push. If you don't, then you either don't have enough hatcheries, or your injects aren't very good. Most Zerg players throw down a macro hatch in their main after taking a 3rd base.
- brood lords are definitely the way to go once you get your 3rd base up. Below gold, most terrans won't see them coming and won't have any vikings, just marines. So you siege his army or base with the brood lords and make sure you have loads of lings and banelings below them in case he stims his marines forward to try and kill them. If there are any cliffs or chokes, try to abuse these to keep his marines back. This should be gg and a win for you most of the time.
- keep your overlords spread out around the map in places which intercept any drops he might send. Many terrans rely on damaging the zergs economy with drops in the mid game and if they don't succeed then you will outmacro them.
- don't write off ultras. They aren't great at dishing out damage but they are amazing at soaking it up. Send a few ultras in, followed closely by a huge ball of lings and banelings, and the latter will most likely clean up his army since they have been protected from siege tank fire by the ultras. Also, these three units have a nice synergy since they all take the same upgrades from the evo chamber. Don't forget chitinous plating and adrenal glands.
- nydus worms can be devastating if the opponent has left a small area of his base outside of his vision.
- try burrowing some infestors and seeing if you can infiltrate the enemys base while his depot is down. In bronze league I doubt many terrans will get detection against zerg. Spam infested terrans in his mineral lines to destroy his economy, or place one or two next to isolated siege tanks, and the friendly fire from his other tanks will kill them.
- fungal growth on marines + nicely timed banelings = crying terran.
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 2,176
- Location
- EU...
Just decide on a solid "safe" macro build and do this every game. For zerg, you could do:
9 overlord
14 pool
16 hatch
15 overlord
15 extractor
16 queen
Next queen builds on same hatch as first, as your second hatch will not be finished. Walk first queen to second hatch after injecting larvae, it should arrive close to when second hatch completes with almost enough energy for another inject larvae.
Throw down 2 spine crawlers at natural to counter the predictable hellion harass if youre against terran
First 100 gas goes on speedlings.
They key to countering all forms of cheese is having good scouting. If you see a 11 gas 13 rax from the terran, this means he's either going reapers, early blue flame hellions or banshees. So get a spine in each mineral line and an extra pair of queens, then get a lair and an overseer. Make sure to block your ramp with your extra queens if you see hellions coming (you should have a ling on each watchtower so you'll have plenty of time).
If the enemy is protoss, the most common forms of cheese will be DT rush, 4 gate and VR rush. Send a ling up his ramp and also suicide an overlord over his tech buildings at about the 5min mark. If he's got no gas units at all (or maybe just 1 sentry) then he's quite possibly going DTs or voids. Get 2 spore crawlers at each mineral line and an extra pair of queens and you'll be fine. If you see 1 gateway and another 3 buliding, then it's a 4 gate and you need to get a roach warren and 3 spines at the entrance to your natural. This combined with a few roaches and speedlings should be plenty to hold off his push. Also, if you scout the gateways as above, send a few lings to search the area around your base for a proxy pylon, as you should be able to kill it before he starts warping in units at it.
Bear in mind that in the lower leagues, people will not follow the most efficient build orders. So you can't rely 100% on scouting, for example a terran may go fast double gas but he's actually massing marines, meanwhile you are preparing for banshees. You need to have constant scouting and knowledge of the enemys army, where it is, what tech he has and which expansions he is taking. This combined with decent macro can take you all the way to diamond.
EDIT: oh, and scout earlier in ZvZ, just in case he's early pooling you.
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 11 Jun 2008
- Posts
- 1,276
- Location
- Stuck on the A406
Cheers for the tips.
Yeah the wall-ins come complete with missile turrets, making infestors a no-go for getting into his base.
There are a number of things I know Im not good at - hitting injects, and keeping my mutas busy being just two. I do tend to just keep them in my base if my opponent has lots of turrets and I cant get in. They also get slaughtered by Marines + Medivac so I need to keep my eyes on them all the time if they are outside my base.
I also need to spread creep better.
I may try your ultralisk tip and see how that goes for base busting - as you say, the upgrades have good synergy. Ive also never tried them before so it should be fun
.One problem with the ladder is that for most people, it is where they play to compete in Starcraft 2. If you remove the competitive attitude from the ladder and replace it with the attitude of " This is where I'm going to play to improve " you will find the ladder experience a much more fun experience. If you want to keep the competitive experience I would suggest signing up the Daily Tournaments something like Playhem.com. With the mentality of " I'm going to practice on the ladder, then try to win on the tournaments " I don't know what league you are in but Playhem do have tournaments for all leagues not just the really good players. Hope this helps!
Go google and learn to speedling expand. Stay away from gasless builds until you learn better timings.
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 2,176
- Location
- EU...
Lol. In what league do Protoss players not buy immortals when they see mass roach? Colossi and void rays also counter roaches. Stalkers are ok against them too. If I played Z, I would go ultra & hydra if the enemy went stalker colossi. Add a few banelings if he has a lot zealots. If he goes gateway units just mass hydra with a few ultras (forget the ultras if he has immortals). If he goes gateway + HT then ultra & roach. If he goes chargelot archon then I'd go mass banelings & roaches.
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 2,176
- Location
- EU...
I find it hard to believe all terrans do this vs zerg. I watch my diamond zerg flatmate play quite a lot, and he regularly does insane (terrible terrible
) damage with infestors because the terran didn't get any detection. This is in diamond. You need an infestation pit for hive tech anyway, so getting 2-3 infestors is a tiny investment. If you start getting shot when moving up his ramp, just pull back and wait outside his base. If the infestors aren't killed by his army when it moves out, this tells you the valuable information that he hasn't brough a raven with him. Quickly spread your banelings out (off creep) in his attack path and burrow them for an easy win.Not necessarily, you just need to react very fast when you get the "under attack" warning. Just press space bar and you'll instantly be taken to the unit which is under attack. You can react in about half a second which is plenty of time to save the mutas. Either that, or just glance at the minimap every few seconds, which you should be doing anyway.
I may try your ultralisk tip and see how that goes for base busting - as you say, the upgrades have good synergy. Ive also never tried them before so it should be fun
. They are probably the coolest units in the game. Bring along a few queens with them (need good creep spread for this, or you can just line up overlords and use them to spread it) and transfuse the injured ones. Keeps them alive long enough to get in amongst the terrans base/army.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 2,826
- Location
- London
I also never played the original, watched a stream of it the other day and dear god is it fugly!
Everyone plays to win, but as people have said a loss is just you getting a bit closer to that next win.. as long as you dont rage but instead learn from your mistakes... at least half of my losses have a simple glaringly obvious thing i did wrong, latest being i had a zerg base pinned on his natural, felt chuffed with myself.. got loads of turrets for any mutas he could swing around but didn't put any turrets with my tank wall... he then burrowed a huge roach army, walked them past my army to my base and won the base race!!
Went from easy win to lose all because i lacked a 100 mineral turret at my army
Soldato
- Joined
- 4 May 2004
- Posts
- 3,270
Make sure you're following a build order from here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_Strategy
Learn Speedling Expand vs all and then try Economic Pool first vs terran. Then practice 7 roach rush vs terran and protoss as 1 base heavy aggression builds to get an idea of the units you can make on 1 base and it should improve your micro as you only have a few units to control.
Associate
- Joined
- 5 Apr 2011
- Posts
- 515
Got a few good games with some people in the chat today. Would be nice to see more of that , just playing with people from the forums for fun
Got a few good games with some people in the chat today. Would be nice to see more of that , just playing with people from the forums for fun
Is there an ocuk channel?
Associate
- Joined
- 5 Apr 2011
- Posts
- 515
yeah OcUk there are normally a few players in there. Bismark and myself ( both silver) were playing with another channel member sim(something) a diamond level player. Good way to learn and with one observer you can help people with their game play.
For instance helped with my macro and how many gates I really need per base etc
there are normally a few players in there. Bismark and myself ( both silver) were playing with another channel member sim(something) a diamond level player. Good way to learn and with one observer you can help people with their game play.For instance helped with my macro and how many gates I really need per base etc