Help - bought a bad car.
- Thread starter Eddie
- Start date
[TW]Fox;21697082 said:
To me that first photo clearly shows incorrect fitment of the engine/gearbox. There is no way that dowel should be mashed half inside and half outside the bellhousing - it should sit in a locating hole performing its rather important function of being a locating dowel and usually would have a bolt through it, that being one of the bolts fastening the box to the engine. If it's missing I'd say that's even grounds to argue it's dangerous. Would you like to drive round with 4 out of 5 wheel nuts, for example?
Shame we dont have pics of the other stuff supposedly cut off the engine/box. Also would be nice to get a pic of another example of the vehicle. Anyone got a 1.4 TDCI fiesta they fancy getting under? Googling right now...
I was thinking about that actually after seeing the higher res photo. I guess it's feasable there was material all around that dowel and it has broken off really flush with the line of the bellhousing so that it looks like it was never there, then got covered in gunk disguising the break, and it was just a dowel - never had a through bolt. Yeah - possible. Seems unlikely, imho, and it seems there is material from the bellhousing 'inside' the dowel that surely wouldn't be there if that used to be a hole for the dowel. It's hard to say. You would have thought Ford would have had a good look, though, and commented on it in their 'report'. Really odd they haven't and I would be phoning them back to ask about it as that was the main reason OP asked for the check, and the main grounds for rejecting the car if he wishes to do so.
This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the pictures. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest either way to be honest, as long as the gearbox is bolted to the engine securely.
Everything else on the list is just general wear and tear which I wouldn't be too bothered about on a 3 grand Fiesta. Corroded brake lines are always a funny one where some MOT testers are stricter than others and I would guess the Ford technician was probably being extra diligent given the OP had paid money towards an inspection - if they find something wrong then it makes the customer feel justified in spending the money. Worth seeing if the dealer will replace them though or put something towards it.
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I'm not so sure, the damage to the bellhousing is more concentrated around the edges of the dowel and the looks to have bellhousing stuck on the middle of it. Poor explanation, but it looks more like it was bashed into place than something having simple snapped off.
Why are garages so ****ing useless these days. 
You go in asking for help on specific things and you don't even get a legitimate paper trail to those very issues you have at hand. Just a load of guff about general wear and tear items to make you feel better about fleecing you of £25 quid.
Can you take a photo of where the engine number should have been. (the one that is supposedly visible that is..) How has this been "removed"
Looking from the perspective of the OP as a "no nothing about cars" Firstly I'd want to get a decent set of non buckled rims on the car and the wheels balanced properly.
This you should go through the original purchasing dealer to get rectified.
If the vibration ceases then things are looking up.
If not, then gearbox to engine mating issues have to be thought about.
Because of the worry about the legitimacy of the original purchasing dealer and the cars issues of not being quite what it seemed, I'd be taking the car for a fresh MOT myself to see if any items were actually pulled up on.
Knowing Ford main dealers they are just into a bit of "work generation" by mentioning the wheel bearings and brakes pipes..
I'd want that looked at "officially" by the man who passes and fails things, not some main dealer oik having a quick nose at it.
This you can then use in your armour, along with the engine box issues to reject the car on the grounds of not being in a satisfactory condition or being mis-sold to you.
Get things in writing at an early stage. Scraps of hand scribbled paper are no use to no one if it has to go to court.
You go in asking for help on specific things and you don't even get a legitimate paper trail to those very issues you have at hand. Just a load of guff about general wear and tear items to make you feel better about fleecing you of £25 quid.
Can you take a photo of where the engine number should have been. (the one that is supposedly visible that is..) How has this been "removed"
Looking from the perspective of the OP as a "no nothing about cars" Firstly I'd want to get a decent set of non buckled rims on the car and the wheels balanced properly.
This you should go through the original purchasing dealer to get rectified.
If the vibration ceases then things are looking up.
If not, then gearbox to engine mating issues have to be thought about.
Because of the worry about the legitimacy of the original purchasing dealer and the cars issues of not being quite what it seemed, I'd be taking the car for a fresh MOT myself to see if any items were actually pulled up on.
Knowing Ford main dealers they are just into a bit of "work generation" by mentioning the wheel bearings and brakes pipes..
I'd want that looked at "officially" by the man who passes and fails things, not some main dealer oik having a quick nose at it.
This you can then use in your armour, along with the engine box issues to reject the car on the grounds of not being in a satisfactory condition or being mis-sold to you.
Get things in writing at an early stage. Scraps of hand scribbled paper are no use to no one if it has to go to court.
Sounds like a useless Ford dealer. Get on google and find out the trans and engine number locations for what the car is "supposed" to be. If you can't find them then get the torch and degreaser out untill you find them.
Without them you've nothing tbh. Not only will they tell you if they are the correct parts, but IF they have been bodged then you will be able to work out what from etc.
Without them you've nothing tbh. Not only will they tell you if they are the correct parts, but IF they have been bodged then you will be able to work out what from etc.
Why are garages so ****ing useless these days.
You go in asking for help on specific things and you don't even get a legitimate paper trail to those very issues you have at hand. Just a load of guff about general wear and tear items to make you feel better about fleecing you of £25 quid.
Can you take a photo of where the engine number should have been. (the one that is supposedly visible that is..) How has this been "removed"
Looking from the perspective of the OP as a "no nothing about cars" Firstly I'd want to get a decent set of non buckled rims on the car and the wheels balanced properly.
This you should go through the original purchasing dealer to get rectified.
If the vibration ceases then things are looking up.
If not, then gearbox to engine mating issues have to be thought about.
Because of the worry about the legitimacy of the original purchasing dealer and the cars issues of not being quite what it seemed, I'd be taking the car for a fresh MOT myself to see if any items were actually pulled up on.
Knowing Ford main dealers they are just into a bit of "work generation" by mentioning the wheel bearings and brakes pipes..
I'd want that looked at "officially" by the man who passes and fails things, not some main dealer oik having a quick nose at it.
This you can then use in your armour, along with the engine box issues to reject the car on the grounds of not being in a satisfactory condition or being mis-sold to you.
Get things in writing at an early stage. Scraps of hand scribbled paper are no use to no one if it has to go to court.
The Ford place never allowed us to go in and take a photo or anything like our local mechanic did (he had the car up on the ramps ready).
I have my own pictures of what I originally thought was the engine number, which I'll gladly post but I'm not sure if that will reveal any information I don't want it to as far as the making this thread and any possible repercussions of that. I suppose I could mask a couple of the digits but still leave the number form so you can see if it is 'an' engine number we're looking at.
We were considering taking the car to an MOT place but we haven't for two reasons; one when we spoke to VOSA they said that if the car has had any work done to it since the date of the original MOT then they couldn't do anything. Secondly, the MOT guy at the Ford dealers and our local mechanic both said that it should have failed the MOT - the mechanic said brake pipes and the Ford guy said brake pipes and wheels.
My gf is typing stuff up all the time, we have loads of bits of paper but we're starting to reduce everything so we can keep it in order. This thread and people like yourself have helped us sort out what has gone on and to at least give us some level of clue and slightly better understanding, so we are grateful for that.
I've said it before but we both actually like the car, I think we both would probably like to keep the car, should it be fixed up properly. I'm not even that bothered that we probably paid too much for it knowing what we know now. We can both live with that, providing we're left with a car that's somewhere close to what we thought we were getting.
The earliest we can take the car through to the dealers now is Wednesday (as I have been ordered to go to the doctors tomorrow about my elephant face as I look like a hamster with my cheeks full of nuts
).It was £2850. It wasn't a billy-bargain type place, we have loads of those round where we stay so I know (well, thought I knew) what to look for as far as that is concerned. The garage had lots of nice looking cars on the forecourt, lots of small diesels too, quite a few out of our budget but with about 4 or 5 within our price range. This was the reaon why we travelled so far to this garage, we thought that if we didn't fancy the Fiesta we'd maybe buy one of the other ones. There was other customers there too and they all looked impressed with whatever car they were considering. The point is that everything that we witnessed on the day of purchase seemed totally legit, we had no reason to doubt anything, we were comfortable with everything.
I actually managed to talk to my brother (who's a bit of a hobby mechanic) tonight for the first time since we got the car and the first thing he said was 'I take it you never looked under the car'. He's obviously right but I never once felt any reason to, I took it in, hook, line and sinker. In the past I have made a point to run my hand underneath the engine and look for anything that is wet, but this time I didn't feel concerned and just never did it.
Definitely my own fault and definitely a lesson learnt.
Yeah, I'd very much like to get my hands in there with a torch and camera - actually I bet a few of you would like to too
Both independent garages said the same thing with regard to the engine number - they both said that they couldn't get at it unless they removed stuff as the engine number that is supposed (there's two possible locations for it apparently) to be near the gear box isn't there.
Stop being so harsh on yourself! Even the well clued up on here wouldn't have thoroughly inspected underneath a 3k fiesta from a garage - if only because you simply can't. Even with a look underneath I'd wager 99% of experienced people would not have noticed that gearbox issue, and plenty would miss the buckled wheels too. This is why the law protects us and by buying from a trader and therefore being protected by the SOGA you've done the right thing.
You noticed the vibration and were told it would be sorted, but it hasn't been. It's certainly not beyond feasibility that the trader never noticed the gearbox issue, and maybe even the buckled wheels - even after rebalancing the fronts and going on a test spin, if he didn't reach 65 he might have thought all was resolved. OK maybe I'm stretching giving the benefit of the doubt a bit far now, but it doesn't matter as you're protected by law - you've now brought the issues clearly to his attention and can demand they are fixed to your satisfaction or reject the car. He need to get the wheels replaced and see if that removes the vibration once and for all, question the corroded brake lines if you like, then really get to the bottom of this gearbox issue. Only accept it if you're satisfied. If you're not for any reason you should be able to reject it under the SOGA citing the incorrect fitting of the gearbox/it's damage/missing bolt etc etc.
Good luck
You noticed the vibration and were told it would be sorted, but it hasn't been. It's certainly not beyond feasibility that the trader never noticed the gearbox issue, and maybe even the buckled wheels - even after rebalancing the fronts and going on a test spin, if he didn't reach 65 he might have thought all was resolved. OK maybe I'm stretching giving the benefit of the doubt a bit far now, but it doesn't matter as you're protected by law - you've now brought the issues clearly to his attention and can demand they are fixed to your satisfaction or reject the car. He need to get the wheels replaced and see if that removes the vibration once and for all, question the corroded brake lines if you like, then really get to the bottom of this gearbox issue. Only accept it if you're satisfied. If you're not for any reason you should be able to reject it under the SOGA citing the incorrect fitting of the gearbox/it's damage/missing bolt etc etc.
Good luck
Thanks for posting that. The feeling I have is that deep, deep down feeling in the pit of your stomach that tells you've been done up like a kippper (hehe, I'm watching Only Fools and Horses atm
). We don't have any money and have had to borrow the £3k to get this car so it means a huge ammount to us. The main reason we needed a car is so the gf can get to her work instead of bus'ing it, so if the car's off the road for whatever reason the travelling expense is still there together with repaying the £3k we borrowed. Things are a bit tight, atm.
If a mechanic doesn't notice a buckled wheel as bad as that when it's sat there spinning in front of him on the wheel balancer he needs to get down specsavers or find a different job.
What I suspect has happened is they have gone to do the balancing job and gone ahh balls buckled wheel boss. Just do the best you can and stick it back on cos we ain't buying a new set of wheels for the guy as that'll be all the profit from the sale gone....
Or something like that.
What I suspect has happened is they have gone to do the balancing job and gone ahh balls buckled wheel boss. Just do the best you can and stick it back on cos we ain't buying a new set of wheels for the guy as that'll be all the profit from the sale gone....
Or something like that.
You're probably close to the truth, but on balancing machines I've seen it's totally possible to grab hold of the wheel, pull it off the car, shove it on the machine, go through the motions and shove it back on the car all without seeing the inside of the wheel. As I said - not beyond feasibility. For a lazy operator. You're probably right though.
This is true. Even though I'm not an expert, when I bought my car I checked everything I could think of thoroughly, but the only time I got underneath, well not really even underneath more peaking the head in, was to check the sills for corrosion and just had a quick glance to see there wasn't anything visibly wrong with the chassis. Didn't even check the actual wheels! Reading this thread next time I might pay more attention to the under body of the car!
Also next time take your brother along, always good to take someone along who knows a little about the subject.
You can only learn from mistakes and bad experiences.Ah, missed your quote
but its a PSA group engine shared with ford, not the othe way round though to be fair, it was a joint venture but the french just build diesels better than ford
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This is true. Even though I'm not an expert, when I bought my car I checked everything I could think of thoroughly, but the only time I got underneath, well not really even underneath more peaking the head in, was to check the sills for corrosion and just had a quick glance to see there wasn't anything visibly wrong with the chassis. Didn't even check the actual wheels! Reading this thread next time I might pay more attention to the under body of the car!
Also next time take your brother along, always good to take someone along who knows a little about the subject.
Well if this thread helps prevent at least one other person from being caught out then I'll be happy.
I would have definitely taken my brother if I could but he's just too busy with work these days. He said the same as most of you though, in that he finds it hard to believe someone would do it in the first place and asked me to send him the photos so he could see it with his own eyes.
He also asked me if the guy who sold it to us had a big red nose and huge feet
