Tourists Banned From Dutch Cannabis Cafes

[elmuzzy66.]

I know. That's a thing I don't "Get"... however, everyone's different... but it's like people who spend thousands of pounds to fly over to a tiny island in the Caribbean or Thailand, and sit on a beach in a resort all holiday... what's the point? Just go the Med for 1/2 the price if you want to be surrounded by English people not seeing or experiencing the culture... :/

Indeed. I live about 1km away from the beach, maybe less. But the thought off travelling 100km to lay on a beach doesn't appeal to me, i already do that every summer. Now the possiblity of doing something i can't do in my own country legaly does appeal to me. Its a taste of what could have been imo.

 

[Marky]

The shops would be regulated and lose licences if caught selling to tourists (as already discussed, look how challenge 21, as a concept, works well in the UK re: alcohol). Then I can't see drugs tourists going just so they can buy illegally on the street. People go there and use drugs because it's completely fine... if it's illegal/underground/they could get in trouble, they're not going to bother, when they could just buy it at home in an equally illegal way.

Indeed you make a fair point.

 

[fez]

Why am I an idiot for not enjoying drugs and enjoying the endorphines, dopamine and seratonin releases that I get through keeping fit and eating good food?

Oh and it's "you're"

Where did someone say you are an idiot for not enjoying drugs? ** Personal attacks will not be tolerated **

I really don't "get" it - I get high just going to gym, or eating some nice food, or spending time with loved ones. I think it's a shame that people feel the need to use drugs to take them away from reality.

I've been to Amsterdam many many times, and I've never walked into a coffee shop for "that". It's just not interesting to me. I've got better things to spend my money on.

So you don't understand people wanting to smoke to get high but you do understand those who like to get high by exercising, eating and spending time with friends. You then said that you think its a shame that people want to take a break from their lives when plenty of people don't see it that way, its just part of their enjoyment of life.

You then finish off your narrow minded view by condescendingly saying that you have better things to spend your money on. ** As above **

 

[wyrd]

Skim read most of this thread, and some ridiculous things have been said by people on both sides of the fence, but i'm going to pick on the following...

As I say, I think the image of loads of stoners everywhere is more negative than that of brothels.

I can only assume you have never been in the presence of anybody under the influence of cannabis, Kenai.

Your typical "stoner" is absurdly laid back and harmless. They can be seen ambling around, sleepy and hungry, frequently laughing at nothing, and forgetting the end of sentences whilst they talk - at a very subdued volume - with whomever is in their company.

Ofcourse, there're exceptions to this, but you'd have to be one of the biggest ****s on the planet before actually smoking, to fall into this minority.

I am interested to hear what you find so offensive about this 'behaviour'.

 

[Ascendancy]

For those claiming that drugs are hard to come by in the UK, try walking around Manchester City Centre for a while. I get scabby looking people trying to push stuff on me at least once a week, and it's not just weed either :/

 

[Threepwood]

No, because if he's below the 40kg limit it's still category three. And why couldn't it be 56 plants, made up of x proper ones and y smaller ones you were trying to argue they might be, earlier?

1st: We are using guidlines that came in 'after' his sentance.

2nd: I'm not saying it couldn't be 56 plants. I'm saying it couldn't have been 56 plants that would be the physical size to produce 6kg to the laughable 40kg plant weight. Which you are reading wrong anyway, between 6-40kg is catagory 2.

3rd: It's getting pretty pointless discussing it with you because you have no clue about it all, only what your brain is deciding on what you have read. You haven't seen plants being grown, you have no idea what size they are etc.

At the end of the day, the man was simply growing enough to control his pain. He was/is a leading activist for legalisation. How stupid would you have to be to have (trust me what would have to be a serious set up to get the weights talking about) a set up which would be a serious mitigating factor in his punishment.

The biggest factor in his punishment was the fact he was on suspended sentace for growing it anway, which means he HAD to go to prison.

 

[Threepwood]

No, because I don't believe he'd've been sentenced to 18 months if that was the case.

The biggest factor in his punishment was the fact he was on suspended sentace for growing it anway, which means he HAD to go to prison.

Where are you getting the idea it was for profit anyway? I've seen nothing about it being for anything other than personal use?


The judge even said this...

No matter what the personal mitigation may be, the time has to come at some point when custody cannot be avoided and that time has come for this appellant.

I keep trying to tell you that if he had been growing a huge ammount, coupled with his previous AND his suspended sentance he would have got a lot more jail time. But you wont listen, that's fine, but at least I tried

 

[Freefaller]

Where did someone say you are an idiot for not enjoying drugs? **** :



So you don't understand people wanting to smoke to get high but you do understand those who like to get high by exercising, eating and spending time with friends. You then said that you think its a shame that people want to take a break from their lives when plenty of people don't see it that way, its just part of their enjoyment of life.

You then finish off your narrow minded view by condescendingly saying that you have better things to spend your money on. **** .

Thanks for the personal attack - very big of you. I shall go and cry myself to sleep, because the big brave boy behind his keyboard called me an idiot. Boo-hoo.

I wasn't being condescending and I wasn't being narrow minded, so wind your tiny little precious neck in sweetie, it's cold out here in the real world, wouldn't want you to get a chill.

I was merely alluding the fact I don't understand the need to take lots of chemicals, where your body can produce it's own "feel good" hormones and you're actually doing yourself some good rather than artificially causing your body to have a reaction to a drug you're taking. I just find it a completely alien concept. So my point was, why bother doing something a) illegal, b) potentially harmful c) socially questionably - when by living a decent healthy lifestyle you can feel great about life and yourself without having to use an escape mechanism like drugs.

So before you get jumped up again, why not take the time to understand the different point of view.. there there, there's a good chap.. aww bless.

 

[Marky]

there there, there's a good chap.. aww bless.

No need to jump to his level Freefaller

Both of you need to respect each others views

 

[fez]

Thanks for the personal attack - very big of you. I shall go and cry myself to sleep, because the big brave boy behind his keyboard called me an idiot. Boo-hoo.

I wasn't being condescending and I wasn't being narrow minded, so wind your tiny little precious neck in sweetie, it's cold out here in the real world, wouldn't want you to get a chill.

Are you actually a grown man? I don't think I have seen quite as much irony in one sentence before I read the above.

You seem to be taking this a little seriously, is that maybe because you realise that your opinion is based in ignorance. I have no issue with people who want to take drugs or don't want to go near them. I just don't have much tolerance for peoples who's arguments are a complete train wreck.

 

[embers]

You are in beautiful country steeped in interesting history and architecture, sights to see, activities to take part in, a chance to culture yourself and you'd prefer to sit in cafe stoned , this is why I hate the drug.

This is ignorance, sir. There are a wide range of different cannabis strains and you should educate yourself about the differences between a sativa plant and an indica plant. You do not get "stoned" if you smoke a sativa dominant strain unless you sit there smoking gram after gram. It is actually more pleasurable to experience the history, architectures and culture of Holland whilst being high, as such a strain improves taste, hearing and feeling and for me, is a great way of experiencing the highs and lows of Holland.

 

[steve-h]

As an adult, I wouldn't even know where to start, nor would I want such a thing anyway.

Oh of course, as an adult you are far too sophisticated for such behaviour Get over yourself

I really don't "get" it - I get high just going to gym, or eating some nice food, or spending time with loved ones. I think it's a shame that people feel the need to use drugs to take them away from reality.

Would it be a safe assumption that you could get your hands on some performance enhancing drugs easier than you could some weed?

I fully accept it is ignorance on my behalf, however, from my fitness geek point of view, doing something which alters your mind/perception and affects your body in such a way cannot be a good thing. Okay, you'll swing it back that going to the gym and eating a decent diet will affect hormonal patterns as well, but it's a sympathetic reaction rather than an artificial overpowering one - and it does me some good.

I'm not keen on an autocratic system don't get me wrong, but there are some things that even if legal shouldn't be glamorised.

From my experience your perception and ideas of reality are not changed in the slightest. I'd like to comment further on the effects, but I believe it's against the FAQ, so unfortunately that's all I'm going to chance saying.

For those claiming that drugs are hard to come by in the UK, try walking around Manchester City Centre for a while. I get scabby looking people trying to push stuff on me at least once a week, and it's not just weed either :/

This is probably the reason people call it a gateway drug.

 

[Things change I've changed]

Still what is the problem with that?
You make it sound like it will be a 24/7 holiday of none stop smoking.

I guess I just find it hard to understand, from my point of view I see it as a wasted opportunity, I think it's important in immerse yourself in different cultures and learn their history and traditions, I think it helps us grow, we become more balanced and learned individuals, also I think it helps make the journey/experience more memorable/interesting.

Your typical "stoner" is absurdly laid back and harmless. They can be seen ambling around, sleepy and hungry, frequently laughing at nothing, and forgetting the end of sentences whilst they talk - at a very subdued volume - with whomever is in their company.

Ofcourse, there're exceptions to this, but you'd have to be one of the biggest ****s on the planet before actually smoking, to fall into this minority.

I am interested to hear what you find so offensive about this 'behaviour'.

I think the problem is that a lot of people that are heavily into cannabis especially in my area are doley chav types, this drug in particular seems to attract these people and the problem is they get so used to it that without it they are a menace to themselves and those around them, they forget how to deal with the normal stresses of society, and then they think the are depressed because they can't cope without it, healthy anxiety transforms into a roadblock leading to an unhealthy change in behaviour and mindset, we are supposed to feel stress, that is what is so dangerous about this drug if taken regularly.

 

[Threepwood]

One of the links posted said the CPS was arguing it was being grown (partly) for profit.

Show me, because all I can find is that he was charged with cultivation and possession, not intent to supply. I'm taking that as the argument was turned down.

With 56 plants, previous convictions, suspened sentance AND intention to supply... only 16 months jail for that!? which was later reduced to 12 months? erm, I dont think so. (hint: That would have put him in a leading role and given 4-8 years in jail)

 

[Freefaller]

Are you actually a grown man? I don't think I have seen quite as much irony in one sentence before I read the above.

You seem to be taking this a little seriously, is that maybe because you realise that your opinion is based in ignorance. I have no issue with people who want to take drugs or don't want to go near them. I just don't have much tolerance for peoples who's arguments are a complete train wreck.

I was doing it on purpose to show you what being condescending was like - I told you in my post it wasn't my intention. So clearly you made a misunderstanding - hence my somewhat silly reply (which I accept).

Shall we just move on and accept that you misunderstood my post, and will you apologise for calling me an idiot?

 

[steve-h]

I think the problem is that a lot of people that are heavily into cannabis especially in my area are doley chav types, this drug in particular seems to attract these people and the problem is they get so used to it that without it they are a menace to themselves and those around them, they forget how to deal with the normal stresses of society, and then they think the are depressed because they can't cope without it, healthy anxiety transforms into a roadblock leading to an unhealthy change in behaviour and mindset, we are supposed to feel stress, that is what is so dangerous about this drug if taken regularly.

No... that is what is so dangerous with 'doley chav types'.

 

[fez]

I was doing it on purpose to show you what being condescending was like - I told you in my post it wasn't my intention. So clearly you made a misunderstanding - hence my somewhat silly reply (which I accept).

Shall we just move on and accept that you misunderstood my post, and will you apologise for calling me an idiot?

I was too gobsmacked by it all to see anything else to be honest. I do apologise for calling you an idiot but that argument about people who need to use drugs to enjoy themselves irks me! I was a little surprised by your reply from what little I know of you on these forums.

I play lots of sport, see friends, eat nice food and smoke weed but they all do different things for me. They are not all means to the same end. Each to their own and all that.

 

[Threepwood]

Freefaller, do you know any bodybuilders who take steroids? Just curious about what you think about them.

 

[Freefaller]

Would it be a safe assumption that you could get your hands on some performance enhancing drugs easier than you could some weed?

Yup - no doubt about it. Though undoubtedly once you tread water in that "dodgy" world, all sorts of other products would undoubtedly make themselves available.

From my experience your perception and ideas of reality are not changed in the slightest. I'd like to comment further on the effects, but I believe it's against the FAQ, so unfortunately that's all I'm going to chance saying.

Ok fair enough. I have had a few joints in my life - but it did little for me, and I didn't find the effects particularly enjoyable. I used to get more fun out of smoking (I know, I was a dirty smoker for a couple of years ), and later in life as sport became "my thing" even more pleasure out of that. I guess I'm just not compatible with what it can offer me, or my personality is so strong that I don't need it?

I'm not completely wet behind the ears or ignorant, I am however, ignorant of the concept of it being an enjoyable thing to do.

 

[fozter]

Excess of anything is bad. Even too much water, or too much oxygen,ffs!

But there's a difference between fast food and cannabis. A kid could make up his diet of fast food, for a whole month, but then go on to have no long term health difficulties. A kid smoking weed for a month, but then have long term mental health problems.

Of course fast food carries 'risks'... but they're different risks, and can't be directly equated.

Haven't read the whole thread as I'm at work so apologies if anything I say has already been mentioned...

Cannabis isn't accessible to children, it is an over 18 only product just like alcohol, so there goes that argument. Sure, kids can still get hold of it, but that is through illegitimate channels. Most people who suffer with mental disorders as a result of cannabis already had some underlying problem to begin with (though this is speculation from stuff I've read so feel free to correct me, however I know many people who have dabbled and don't any more, and are fine.)

Fast food can cause heart disease, scerosis(sp) of the liver, high cholestoral just to name a few. One is certainly worse than the other and although the body can repair itself quite well, a kid who eats junk food regularly for 1 month is pretty likely to go on doing so if that is the diet presented to them. Although I do agree that they aren't really comparable things.

The people who haven't gone to Dam because of pot smokers must have lead pretty sheltered lives to be honest... I didn't even notice anyone spacing out while I was there. Not sure about the drink scene though as I didn't bother (£££).

All weed does is stop you doing the things you don't wanna do (Kat Williams ) and it is about moderation. I just wish it was legalised because my mum suffers systemic lupus and have seen other friends relatives suffer from various conditions that I do genuinely believe would be alleviated by marajuana use (whether its vaping, oils, spliffs etc). Why would they be synthesising THC in the pharmaceutical market if it did not have benevolent qualities?

The mind boggles. A lot of people here seem to put pot smokers in the same, lowest of the low, people turning to it cause they have nothing else type scenario. For lack of a better phrase, grow up.