Guild Wars 2

I don't have a problem with melee being played differently or originally (or even demandingly), so long as people playing melee can actually be given the opportunity to play it properly. The camera/graphics hang-ups right now make it a painful experience in comparison to the Ranged alternative. I have no problem with having to weapon-switch, jump back, fire off some pistol rounds, jump back in, etc. That all sounds terrifically fun and an engaging challenge. My problem is that whenever you do opt to get in close and personal, you can't see _anything_ and the game difficulty ramps up for many technical and frustrating reasons that are surely not by intended design.
 
amd 7970 on max everything 2560x1600 peaked at 1800mb but sure it could have gone higher in city. Looks like a 680 is not your best weapon for this task. 1080p you'll be golden though.

edit: looks like I'm enforcing some extra AA tech through the control panel so the in game presets might be lower usage but I enjoyed trying to use that 70% gpu power that wasn't being used on after effects.
 
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InKursion said:
I don't have a problem with melee being played differently or originally (or even demandingly), so long as people playing melee can actually be given the opportunity to play it properly. The camera/graphics hang-ups right now make it a painful experience in comparison to the Ranged alternative. I have no problem with having to weapon-switch, jump back, fire off some pistol rounds, jump back in, etc. That all sounds terrifically fun and an engaging challenge. My problem is that whenever you do opt to get in close and personal, you can't see _anything_ and the game difficulty ramps up for many technical and frustrating reasons that are surely not by intended design.
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They've confirmed they're tweaking AI to love melee less and start going after ranged chaps some more, and I assume the work on toning down effects continues, so that there is a setting where only effects you see are those that actually apply to you (I'm guessing combo fields, your skill effects, bad stuff that will hurt you and boon stuff that will make you glorious and valiant, with the force of 10,000 suns).

X-posting from forums.

Hey all. I wanted to talk about this a bit since it is a hot topic here and also on the internets. The intention is that both styles are viable. Certainly right now Melee is more difficult than ranged. There are some things we will try to do to address this, but I think the more you play you would find they are closer than you think.
First what’s already there:
1) Melee does more damage. Melee damage is simply higher than ranged damage across the board.
2) Melee has more control. With a few intentional exception Melee has a lot more control than ranged.
What Melee needs:
1) defensive tools on more weapons, particularly on lower armor professions.
2) ai needs to favor Melee a bit less than it currently does.
What else:
Finally because of the more action based nature of combat Melee needs to be taught better. Effective Melee requires skills that translate over from FPS games which are notoriously harder on casual players. You have to wasd to move, constantly aim with your mouse camera, and hit skills on 1-5.
Some tips:
If you have learned any good Melee tips that you think we should pass on to newer players feel free to post them here. I’ll start with a few tips of my own.
- If you don’t have mouse look on when using a skill you will turn to face. I sometimes let go of mouse look as I activate to help me aim through the chaos and then click it back down in between attacks.
- Melee has a lot of hard hitting skills and good setup. Utility skills Can really help set up big Melee attacks. Bulls charge on warrior, scorpion wire on thief, judges intervention on guardian.
- know when to run. No matter what you are not a tank. You have to move in and out avoiding damage. If you have to soak damage try and bring boons like Protection and Regeneration or conditions like Blindness and the very undervalued Weakness.
Thanks for reading this all. Rest assured we will keep working on this and just keep in mind the subtle differences in GW2 combat that take a while to sink in.
Jon
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EDIT:

Follow up:
Hey everyone. As a general rule I try to not post twice in one thread because it starts sucking me in and I need to spend my time sleeping/working on GW2. However, so many great replies here I wanted to just explain why you might not get responses to them, but a lot of great valid points. It is nice to have a community that understands the problems as well and just know our goals are the same.
Some small notes.

Champions hit too hard.

Melee attacks are longer range and wider arc than you might suspect to compensate for latency.

Camera distance might not change, but we have considered moving the position a bit to help with visibility.
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Also, ~4,600 recipes in the crafting system lol.
 
Sad to see that the camera distance might not change. I have no idea why they are not listening to overwhelming community demand for this! In quests and events the camera simply does not pan out wide enough to get any meaningful assessment of the action. In specific boss-fights the game even changes its own camera and FOV settings, to a 'cinematic' mode, so they clearly know the normal camera settings are inadequate. Strange indeed.

Another thing I noticed is that the camera 'lags' in how it follows you; there's a few steps of give either way you move, directionally, before the camera catches up. I submitted a suggestion/bug report that the camera move instantly with player movement. It'll make the game feel more responsive.
 
InKursion said:
Sad to see that the camera distance might not change. I have no idea why they are not listening to overwhelming community demand for this! In quests and events the camera simply does not pan out wide enough to get any meaningful assessment of the action. In specific boss-fights the game even changes its own camera and FOV settings, to a 'cinematic' mode, so they clearly know the normal camera settings are inadequate. Strange indeed.

Another thing I noticed is that the camera 'lags' in how it follows you; there's a few steps of give either way you move, directionally, before the camera catches up. I submitted a suggestion/bug report that the camera move instantly with player movement. It'll make the game feel more responsive.
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I know most mmo's have the option between insta camera follow or delayed.

I hope we are given the choice as personally I hate delayed, I always felt it effected my pvp performance as I couldn't react/assess as quick as I required.
 
No1newts said:
Slight direction change, did anyone play engineer in beta? Thinking of that class for my main and feedback would be appreciated :)
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Yeah, but only it him to level 7. I get the impression he's not going to win many solo PvP fights, but could be brilliant in sieges. Loads of utility, turrets, dropable fps style med and buff packs, guns, and of course, MONOCLES!
 
so i played the beta weekend from saturday onwards, but due to a broken mouse and having to use a very old low dpi mouse i did not actually get much time in, it was too frustrating.... can anyone answer these questions ??

1/ i found a reservoir type place in queensdale that the local bandits were poisoning ( in a dynamic event)... but the mission to stop them failed just as i reached there so we had to switch to a second part which involved killing green blobs and taking their 'bits' to a guy in order for him to create an antidote; if i had gone back later would it of been possible to play the first part of this D.E -- to stop the bandits poisoning the towns water??

2/ again, in queensdale there is a cemetery very near where you start as a human, and there is a cave there but just inside is a locked door. (behind which you can hear muttering)

is it just a case of kill a mob and find a key, or try again at a higher level, or does some zone wide event or mini boss death trigger the door being opened ? OR maybe you need to read the 'correct' gravestone inscription which then flags you somehow and gives a different chat option on right clicking the door ? im very curious :)

apologies if these seem very basic questions!
 
No1newts said:
I know most mmo's have the option between insta camera follow or delayed.

I hope we are given the choice as personally I hate delayed, I always felt it effected my pvp performance as I couldn't react/assess as quick as I required.
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A lot of the game design decisions do seem quite puzzling, considering they are trying to create a 'competitive' game. Just hope they at least give us the option, yeah! I hate this talk of them leaving stuff out because it makes things too 'complicated' for new players. Let the veteran players at least have the choice!
 
Mittens said:
so i played the beta weekend from saturday onwards, but due to a broken mouse and having to use a very old low dpi mouse i did not actually get much time in, it was too frustrating.... can anyone answer these questions ??

1/ i found a reservoir type place in queensdale that the local bandits were poisoning ( in a dynamic event)... but the mission to stop them failed just as i reached there so we had to switch to a second part which involved killing green blobs and taking their 'bits' to a guy in order for him to create an antidote; if i had gone back later would it of been possible to play the first part of this D.E -- to stop the bandits poisoning the towns water??

Eventually, yes, but you'd need to push that event chain back to that stage first.

2/ again, in queensdale there is a cemetery very near where you start as a human, and there is a cave there but just inside is a locked door. (behind which you can hear muttering)

is it just a case of kill a mob and find a key, or try again at a higher level, or does some zone wide event or mini boss death trigger the door being opened ? OR maybe you need to read the 'correct' gravestone inscription which then flags you somehow and gives a different chat option on right clicking the door ? im very curious :)

I haven't seen this event specifically, but they have mentioned similar events with trigger items that lead to rampaging monsters in events that take up a large area of the zone.

apologies if these seem very basic questions!
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Smite said:

This german engineer does unholy things with the enemy team. Bomb kit is best kit. :P
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Ta :)

Dear me he is pretty good, scratch that the more I watch he is amazing! Taking them two guys out with zero problems was impressive as hell!

Makes the class look a lot of fun :D

Sleepery said:
Yeah, but only it him to level 7. I get the impression he's not going to win many solo PvP fights, but could be brilliant in sieges. Loads of utility, turrets, dropable fps style med and buff packs, guns, and of course, MONOCLES!
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Ta as well :)




On another glad to see the thread has got much better the last few pages, most genuine and prolonged debate/discussion I have seen in this thread yet. Lets keep it like this :)
 
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Mittens said:
1/ i found a reservoir type place in queensdale that the local bandits were poisoning ( in a dynamic event)... but the mission to stop them failed just as i reached there so we had to switch to a second part which involved killing green blobs and taking their 'bits' to a guy in order for him to create an antidote; if i had gone back later would it of been possible to play the first part of this D.E -- to stop the bandits poisoning the towns water??
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The event will go back and forth dependant on peoples actions. If people do well enough it will eventually go back to the stage but conversely if people continually perform poor you will never see that stage again.
 
Spektor said:
Is Diablo 3 an MMO then?
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That isn't the only criteria. :) Obviously there has to be the ability to have a "massive" amount of people in the same area, but that could be done in GW1 in towns/outposts.

It's all just opinion anyway, genres are what they are to the people that are thinking of them. I can understand why GW1 isn't thought of as an MMO but I find the fact that GW2 isn't an open world a bit extreme not to class it as an MMO.
 
orderoftheflame said:
No.

The very definition of an MMO is to have a massive number of players (hundreds to thousands) in one server/realm etc.

People assosiate certain features with MMOs (trade as an example), they do not make a game an MMO.
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You've missed the first part of this convo - I'm highlighting that superficial things like auction houses are not what makes something an MMO.
 
Spektor said:
You've missed the first part of this convo - I'm highlighting that superficial things like auction houses are not what makes something an MMO.
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And I'm agreeing with that point. :confused:

To me, what an MMO is is pretty cut and dry. A game where a massive number of people can come together to play in a persistent realm, server or area. The features or style of gameplay are irrelevant to that, hence why you can have MMORPG, MMOFPS, MMOTBS type games.
 
orderoftheflame said:
together to play in a persistent realm or area.
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Here is one of my issues with the definitions of something being an MMO, as I'd say a single persistent world is pretty important to gain the title. But several MMOs, including GW2, instance off the main world -- so where is the persistence when there are several different versions of the same part of the map on the same server?

I'm not sure what the overflows in GW2 are limited to, I know the WvW has hundreds so GG there, but I mean the PvE zones. I remember in Age of Conan it was something silly like 48 players. IMO when you get to that stage of instancing you're no longer an MMO, you're no different to an FPS game but with swords & dragons instead of guns & tanks. The rest of the game then just becomes a fancy 3D server browser almost.
 
Spektor said:
Here is one of my issues with the definitions of something being an MMO, as I'd say a single persistent world is pretty important to gain the title. But several MMOs, including GW2, instance off the main world -- so where is the persistence when there are several different versions of the same part of the map on the same server?

I'm not sure what the overflows in GW2 are limited to, I know the WvW has hundreds so GG there, but I mean the PvE zones. I remember in Age of Conan it was something silly like 48 players. IMO when you get to that stage of instancing you're no longer an MMO, you're no different to an FPS game but with swords & dragons instead of guns & tanks. The rest of the game then just becomes a fancy 3D server browser almost.
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I would agree with that.

Has to in the hundreds (at least) for it to be an mmo.

To be fair, whilst it is not a vital requirement, I would like games with such heavy instancing to be classified as an ORPG. This would be truer and stop some games (not suggesting gw2 is doing this) cashing in on the mmo tag and offering non mmo features. (yes you swtor!! :p)
 
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