Are you a feminist?

[Six7th]

or were they just shocked that 99% of the time it would have been a guy im pretty sure most people that called them out would have expected a man to of arrived, and been shocked when it was a lady, no matter how feminist they are

Statistically I'd imagine there are more men than women in that profession, so yeah I guess we'd all expect it to be a man that turns up. I've got no problem with this.

But it's

and not gracing the pages of <insert man's magazine> wearing no clothes?

where the problem lies.

 

[paradisiac]

Statistically I'd imagine there are more men than women in that profession, so yeah I guess we'd all expect it to be a man that turns up. I've got no problem with this.

But it's



where the problem lies.

but didn't someone say (not sure if it was you, don't think so), that society has made women think that this is all they can aspire to? so in that case, surly it would be a shock to society to see a beautiful women doing manual work and not getting her baps out for money?

 

[Six7th]

Yeah that was me. I didn't mean that everyone in that industry was there because they thought they were nothing but a body to be looked at. Only in some cases, does this apply.

IIRC, In the Living Dolls there's a chapter about an event organised by Nuts at a club in Southend. Basically they were getting these young women up on stage to strip off and pose to a panel from nuts, who will judge how they're posing/the size of their **** and how good there body looks. The winner would ultimately be given a contract with nuts so they could have more topless photos taken.

Why were they doing this? Well the author interviewed some of the contestants and found that they wanted to be famous, as they thought this was the best way they could earn money, and they wanted to live a life of being popular. I'm sure they aspired to people such as Katie Price. And what's the easiest way for a woman to become famous? Well unfortunately for these women it was stripping off for topless photos.

And these women knew that this career wasn't nice, and they knew they were being objectified. They didn't like it. However, this didn't stop them from getting up on that stage.

 

[paradisiac]

Yeah that was me. I didn't mean that everyone in that industry was there because they thought they were nothing but a body to be looked at. Only in some cases, does this apply.

IIRC, In the Living Dolls there's a chapter about an event organised by Nuts at a club in Southend. Basically they were getting these young women up on stage to strip off and pose to a panel from nuts, who will judge how they're posing/the size of their **** and how good there body looks. The winner would ultimately be given a contract with nuts so they could have more topless photos taken.

Why were they doing this? Well the author interviewed some of the contestants and found that they wanted to be famous, as they thought this was the best way they could earn money, and they wanted to live a life of being popular. I'm sure they aspired to people such as Katie Price. And what's the easiest way for a woman to become famous? Well unfortunately for these women it was stripping off for topless photos.

And these women knew that this career wasn't nice, and they knew they were being objectified. They didn't like it. However, this didn't stop them from getting up on that stage.

yes, but these were shallow women with low aspirations in the first place. no one aspires to be famous, people aspire to be good at their trade, if this happens to be something in the entertainment/media etc industry then great. but how can you just 'aspire to be famous'? that in itself is stupid.

E: what I mean by this is, surely they should aspire to be a good TV presenter, Actress, Musician, Dancer....... which means attending a performance school, getting workexperience behind the scenes etc, not getting your baps out. they just like the idea of people knowing them in the street and want the wages, they DO NOT care about the job.

 

[Six7th]

yes, but these were shallow women with low aspirations in the first place.

If that's the case why do they have low aspirations in the first place? Are they brought up in to think they will never achieve much or is it a wider problem with society?

no one aspires to be famous

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. Are you telling me that you've never come across anyone who hasn't told you they want to be famous? You've never heard a teenage girl say they dream of being famous? I certainly have.

They see people like Katie Price, who is all over the TV, has her own clothing brand and I'd imagine a lot of money. Teenage girls will take her as a role model - they will also see that they might achieve the same fame by posing topless, just like Katie Price.

 

[paradisiac]

If that's the case why do they have low aspirations in the first place? Are they brought up in to think they will never achieve much or is it a wider problem with society?



I'm sorry but I completely disagree. Are you telling me that you've never come across anyone who hasn't told you they want to be famous? You've never heard a teenage girl say they dream of being famous? I certainly have.

They see people like Katie Price, who is all over the TV, has her own clothing brand and I'd imagine a lot of money. Teenage girls will take her as a role model - they will also see that they might achieve the same fame by posing topless, just like Katie Price.

yes, I have heard people say they want to be famous, but its not something you can really aspire to be. society hasn't made them think they cant aspire to more, that is crazy, its more a case they see people like Katie Price with all her money and her lifestyle and think 'I want a piece of that'. Whereas if you ask 99% of men that want to be 'famous' will not say so in those words. they will say 'I want to be a rockstar' , 'I want to play pro football' , 'I want to be a Hollywood actor'. these are aspirations (or more commonly just dreams), whereas women see fame as a career. this is my point, society has objectified them, women getting famous for stupid reasons is what has done it.

E: If however their responses had been 'I want to be lawyer/doctor/vet...., but unfortunately I cannot afford to put myself through uni/course...., so this is a quick way to make the money I need' then I would say, that's horrible, men don't have to stoop to those levels to get through uni etc so something is seriously wrong with the system if women do.

 

[Angilion]

How do you get to that though is the question?

Making it the goal, genuinely the goal, is a good start. "Start as you mean to go on" is a cliche because it's fundamentally true.

An ideology which requires considering people to be wholly defined by their sex and which requires advocating that only people of the "right" sex be given any consideration on a social and political scale and which requires advocacy of at least some discrimination on the basis of sex and which encompasses any and all sexism up to and including total eradication of the "wrong" sex is not the route to genuine sexual equality.

I'm fairly optimistic about it - I think that feminism will eventually fail because sexual equality has grassroots support due to it being the only fair thing. Although I'm not sure why I'm optimistic, given how much irrational prejudice on numerous different grounds has existed in the past and continues to exist in the present.

 

[Jay794]

My step dad is an employer and has always made a point of never employing women

Pretty sure thats illegal, but ok

Because you're suggesting that a good looking woman is nothing but a sexual object to be fapped over by men?

No I'm not, I'm saying I was surprised because you hardly ever seen women in a manual labour job, they're (stereotypically or not) doing office work or stay at home mums.

It isn't sexist because I didn't say "Why is she doing a manual labour job, when she should be in lads mags" all I said is that I was surprised that a women was doing what you all would assume to be a "mans job"

Looking at the call centre I currently work in, the ratio has got to be 5 women to every 1 man. Now is that because all their husbands are doing "man jobs" like builders etc.... or is it because call centre work attracts women?

 

[boxman2000]

Unfortunately many women only want equal rights when it suits them.

Absolutely

 

[shoes]

Pretty sure thats illegal, but ok

It probably is, but very difficult to prove. Short of writing to candidates and saying 'Unfortunately due to you lack of Y chromosome we are unable to offer you a position' then how can it be proven? He has one female employee as I said earlier, so it cannot be claimed he won't employ any women.

The nature of the business means that apart from this one woman every single person who works for him is ex military, ex police or ex private security firms - of which there is a great imbalance in favour of men for whatever reason (the army must need a lot of sandwiches so perhaps all the women are in the messes or something).

Either way - he hasn't rejected many women as applicant levels for women are almost non-existent. If they come along and are under xyz age and/or have children <16 then they pretty much stand no chance.

I disagree with that in principal, but the business is business. He's not in business for anyone else's benefit - he does't employ people out of the goodness of his heart. It's because the business needs the resource.

Years ago he had a woman who was ex military working for him, but she left to go and have kids. Being a subcontractor it didn't really make much difference to him.

 

[Jay794]

It probably is, but very difficult to prove. Short of writing to candidates and saying 'Unfortunately due to you lack of Y chromosome we are unable to offer you a position' then how can it be proven? He has one female employee as I said earlier, so it cannot be claimed he won't employ any women.

The nature of the business means that apart from this one woman every single person who works for him is ex military, ex police or ex private security firms - of which there is a great imbalance in favour of men for whatever reason (the army must need a lot of sandwiches so perhaps all the women are in the messes or something).

Either way - he hasn't rejected many women as applicant levels for women are almost non-existent. If they come along and are under xyz age and/or have children <16 then they pretty much stand no chance.

I disagree with that in principal, but the business is business. He's not in business for anyone else's benefit - he does't employ people out of the goodness of his heart. It's because the business needs the resource.

Years ago he had a woman who was ex military working for him, but she left to go and have kids. Being a subcontractor it didn't really make much difference to him.

The only legal way round it I can think of is to say

"Other applicants have more experience" - at least thats what I'm used to hearign lol

 

[shoes]

The only legal way round it I can think of is to say

"Other applicants have more experience" - at least thats what I'm used to hearign lol

Ah i don't know the technicalities of it - I know it's his viewpoint and I know that he only has one woman on the books. He maintains that he doesn't get many applicants who are female which I can believe.

I think you're right though - just say there was a better candidate and leave it at that.

 

[Muzy]

In my point of view, Men and Women share some common responsibilities , at the same time, each have their own responsibilities to do that the other gender find difficult or not related to their ways of doing things. Men and Women are equal in some parts.

 

[RDM]

In my point of view, Men and Women share some common responsibilities , at the same time, each have their own responsibilities to do that the other gender find difficult or not related to their ways of doing things.

Such as what? Other than childbirth and breastfeeding what is it exactly that men find difficult or vice versa?

 

[paradisiac]

Such as what? Other than childbirth and breastfeeding what is it exactly that men find difficult or vice versa?

women cant pee up a wall as well as a man

 

[RDM]

women cant pee up a wall as well as a man

I am struggling to think of many occupations where that is a relevant skill...

It just seems that some people find it difficult to actually articulate why gender differences actually matter as far as work goes. Possibly because, in reality, they don't.

 

[paradisiac]

I am struggling to think of many occupations where that is a relevant skill...

It just seems that some people find it difficult to actually articulate why gender differences actually matter as far as work goes. Possibly because, in reality, they don't.

this is true.

like I have said, and will stick to no matter what names people call me, I believe that everyone should be looked at and judged on ability and suitability alone, not gender, race, age, religion......

 

[anything I don't mind]

Woman are just making excuses and are looking for unfair advantage from the government, this sort of feminism only wants to bring in a different type of discrimination. For there to be equality there can't be any affirmative action or sex based government policies that will give any one an advantage.

Woman already have equality in the west and they have for a few generations. So I don't realy see why they must continue with feminism. Woman are free to start their own firm and only hire females and see how well they get on with that. No one is forcing them to work for a male dominated firm.

 

[Angilion]

In my point of view, Men and Women share some common responsibilities , at the same time, each have their own responsibilities to do that the other gender find difficult or not related to their ways of doing things. Men and Women are equal in some parts.

Please tell me what you think all men "find difficult or not related to their ways of doing things" and what you think all women "find difficult or not related to their ways of doing things", plus which responsibilities you think should be assigned on the basis of what type of genitals a person has and which ones you think shouldn't be. For bonus points, please tell me why you think they're inherent rather than socialised.

And yes, you are talking about all men and all women. You are clearly talking in terms of absolutes, not tendencies with wide variations between individuals.

Breast feeding is the only good example I can think of and if push comes to shove even that isn't absolute, either way (some men can breastfeed, some women can't).

 

[shoes]

just making excuses and are looking for unfair advantage