Guild Wars 2

Utnac said:
Thank you, no need to shoe-horn raids into GW2 because they are seen as a 'norm'. As I said earlier in the thread, GW1 got by fine for years with an endgame without raids, this game will too.
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+1

The definition of raiding can mean totally different things to people. If you asked people in EQ if 10 man grping could mean raiding you would have been laughed at (something magical about 72 man raid teams /shiver).

No reason why GW2's 5 man content can't become the norm for 'end game' replacing 10/25/40 man situations, with open world 25+ person encounters giving additional elements of an oldschool raid style enviroment.
 
Robbo said:
It doesn't need to have de facto 'Raids', but it will need something to captivate people who don't want to PvP all the time (which I believe it has already anyway).
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I also think it's there, as I say, acquiring legendary gear and other vanity gear, achievements and titles worked fine in GW1.
 
Robbo said:
It doesn't need to have de facto 'Raids', but it will need something to captivate people who don't want to PvP all the time (which I believe it has already anyway).
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Pretty much this - it just needs challenging PvE content.

Still skeptical of outdoor PvE bosses though, how can they be anything more than flashy loot pinatas if they are tuned for a random group of uncoordinated players.

Utnac said:
As I said earlier in the thread, GW1 got by fine for years with an endgame without raids, this game will too.
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GW1 had urgoz/deep/ebonycitadel/UW which could be considered its raids.

Personally - I'm alright with the fact that the high end PvE is in 5mans, I just hope there is plenty of content. :D
 
m4rk84 said:
The 5 man explore mode is their equivalent of raiding, this isn't some 5 man hard mode WoW dungeons this is designed to be much harder then that apparently...

Give it a chance before writing it off.
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Not writing it off at all, in fact I think I may very well prefer these types of dungeons to whats regarded as 'normal raiding' dunno if any of you guys played DC Universe, but I loved their small raid teams that you could get through in 2 hours.

Utnac said:
You're just grossly over estimating the number of people who enjoy raiding I think.
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Lets say at a minimum 30% of mmo players like to raid, not hardcore just raid every now and then, that could still be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players.
I think having played MMO's for over a dozen years, lead guilds from 100 to 1000 players I have a rough Idea.

MadMossy said:
I think the concept of raiding that people are so use to has been thrown out the window with GW2.

While there won't be any "instanced raids" like WoW or SWTOR as an example there will be epic events in area's like orr which require dozens people to finish. I remember seeing the video from 2010 where an event ended with a dragon which needed 30-40 players to defeat.

So there will still be "big" bosses to kill.

Personally I'm all for dungeons and events like they have in GW2, as much as I enjoyed the raiding in wow/swtor, the number of times I spent waiting around because we didnt have enough people for the 16/20/25/40 man raids to get starting out weighs the number of raids actually finished.

People that raid large scale even once a week are probably still within the top 5% of all players in a game, so not having any GW2 won't hurt its success at all.
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Agree with this very much I never quite liked the 16 man raids tho I never really had the problems of always short players. Not sure about out yes while maybe only 5/10% may be hardcore, a much bigger % like to raid causally.

Robbo said:
It doesn't need to have de facto 'Raids', but it will need something to captivate people who don't want to PvP all the time (which I believe it has already anyway).
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This. I have never said that they have to have raids I just think it a bit shortsighted to cut out all those people who like to raid, and its a lot more than some people think.

End game which is 99% of the time raiding is what makes or breaks MMO these days, tho I think as I have said before AreaNet, know what they doing, and I'm sure what they have is fine.

The one thing they have to make sure is that when killing say 'world bosses' it gives people the sense of achievement (this is one of the main reasons beside gear, why I think people raid), and if killing a 'world boss' can be done by every johnny come lately who just tags in does the minimum and gets the glory, this could very well be a problem.

The one thing that stands out in this discussion is how closed minded some people are because they don't like it they don't want it in, where I think the more they add even if I don't do it or like it can only be for the good of the game, and whats good for the game, usually ends up being good for every single player.
 
wab said:
Lets say at a minimum 30% of mmo players like to raid, not hardcore just raid every now and then, that could still be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players.
I think having played MMO's for over a dozen years, lead guilds from 100 to 1000 players I have a rough Idea.
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I don't think 30% of MMO players raid regularly though, not even close.
 
Utnac said:
I don't think 30% of MMO players raid regularly though, not even close.
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Define regularly.

I think it's more popular than you think as well, especially given the LFR system WoW now has, I'd wager the vast majority raid at least once per week; and that's just the casuals.

GW2 will need some sort of entertaining and reasonably deep PvE content. Unless they only want competitive PvPers to play the game, which is an even smaller portion of people.
 
I quite like the way they are doing PvE content, even if it is for smaller groups. For example the dungeons have multiple different paths in them, meaning each time you play them it can be different, with gaining access to some bosses on a new route, while losing access to bosses you killed last time etc... SWTOR did a similar thing with the light/dark side choices during flashpoints, but the thing with that is that it changed the story a little terms of cutscenes but the gameplay of the flashpoint was largely unchanged by the choices.

Also for larger scale raiding, there is always some of the bigger dynamic events, which won't be the regular raiding that WoW had, but there is a little excitement in "OMG, we just advanced the dynamic quest to the end and a world boss spawned! everyone in the zone come here!" and you will have people from all over the zone rush over to help kill it. The loot system means that anyone can just jump in, you don't all need to be grouped to get credit and rewards based on your contribution, and the lack of the need for a tank/dps/healer setup before engaging means that there is much less setup time than world bosses in games like WoW.

Even during the human starting zone in the last BWE there was a huge world boss spawned at one point, and it was fun to watch everyone come together to fight it and then each take our own loot that had be allocated to us.


I'm not entirely sure how endgame PvE will look in terms of raiding, all I know is that from the low level stuff I've experienced so far I have faith that the devs know what they are doing, and that although they are breaking from the norm, they will come up with something good.
 
If anyone here watches and follows dontains videos on Youtube, then in his latest VLOG he talks about Orr, and how it is just a cluster**** of Dynamic events and massive raid like content. Im guessing, he is an external tester for the game, as he keeps on saying that he can't really say much else throughout his videos.

 
I think a lot depends on ANets intentions. If they want to take and hold a large majority of the wow playerbase they will need some form of repeatable Pve endgame as that's what this generation of mmo players expect/want.

If they are happy with their original GW fanbase plus pvpers (wvw) and bitter vets then their current strategy will more than suffice. I know as bitter vet I like what they are proposing and I'm not too fussed on the need for 4 hours of my life 3/4 nights a week having to be given up to see content.
 
I pre-purchased it the first time it was available. However only played the first beta weekend event, but really do not want to spoil the story so will wait until launch to dive in properly.
 
diamount said:
I pre-purchased it the first time it was available. However only played the first beta weekend event, but really do not want to spoil the story so will wait until launch to dive in properly.
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Same, I've just been exploring the main citys, like lions arch, saw the old ruined verson underwater too which was very nostalgic. :D
 
Simple question. I'm looking for a game I can sink some time into, but is this something I'll have to take 'seriously'?

Is it important to join one of these guild things, and is that something I could do even if I couldn't play for a week at a time?

Looks good, but if it requires a commitment it might not be something I can get involved in. Work can be, and always will be demanding and unpredictable and there will be times when I can't play for days or more and there will be lots of times I'll intend to be on that night and have to stay at work instead.

Beyond that, I've never got involved in a MMO before, is this something you can pick up and get into or is it something that you need a degree in WoW to understand??
 
Robbo said:
Define regularly.

I think it's more popular than you think as well, especially given the LFR system WoW now has, I'd wager the vast majority raid at least once per week; and that's just the casuals.

GW2 will need some sort of entertaining and reasonably deep PvE content. Unless they only want competitive PvPers to play the game, which is an even smaller portion of people.
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Funny thing is I never said regularly like mst of his replies he just seems to read into others people comments, what he wants to see and not what they actually saying.

I agree with what Dist said my only worry with the world bosses is very soon they will not feel like a achievement, this could be a real problem.

I to like the way they have set the PvE, makes it a lot quicker to get things going, but not having tank/spank is not a reason not to have raids, I just think that dynamic events will not be enough.

Tho I do believe these guys(AreaNet) are good at this stuff and there will be more than enough to keep players busy, and even tho and I stress I am not a big raider, I think adding raids will help this game.
 
Chris [BEANS];22352531 said:
Simple question. I'm looking for a game I can sink some time into, but is this something I'll have to take 'seriously'?

Is it important to join one of these guild things, and is that something I could do even if I couldn't play for a week at a time?

Looks good, but if it requires a commitment it might not be something I can get involved in. Work can be, and always will be demanding and unpredictable and there will be times when I can't play for days or more and there will be lots of times I'll intend to be on that night and have to stay at work instead.

Beyond that, I've never got involved in a MMO before, is this something you can pick up and get into or is it something that you need a degree in WoW to understand??
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There are tons of casual guilds out there, including us, so finding a guild to suit should be easy enough.

Guilds should suit what you want and not the other way round, and if you asking me I would say definitely join a guild they add so much more fun to the time spent playing.
 
MadMossy said:
Looks like pretty epic "raid" content to me
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As said above:

Still skeptical of outdoor PvE bosses though, how can they be anything more than flashy loot pinatas if they are tuned for a random group of uncoordinated players.
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Pretty much all of the event bosses in the BWE's have been trivial with enough people around, it's nice to look at but it isn't especially compelling. The boss in the font of rhond mini dungeon wasn't too bad though.

Concessions - beta is beta, early content, etc.

Chris [BEANS];22352531 said:
Snip
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Barrier for entry is pretty low, you can just turn up and do things essentially.
 
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GW2 has no raid content.

It never will.

One should not expect it to, nor play it for raid content.

Outdoor bosses are not raids. They are zerg fests with infinite re-spawn masses of players.

GW2 has no holy trinity so expect required skill/tactics/approaches to be far less complex than MMOs that do employ holy trinity models. This is not a bash but simply stating the facts. It might not be easy to kill something but it will not be because you are approaching it with the wrong 'plan' as the scope for plans are small.

I did some outdoor bosses in beta and there is no tactic, just don't die and spam DPS.
 
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