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The Running Man said:
Yes they won by goal difference. How did they do this? By crushing utd at old trafford. That was a truer sign of the difference between the two sides. They might have had some indifferent form later in the season but in terms of head to head results lets just say we wouldn't have been so close.
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Did you watch that game? If we didn't go all out to get another goal back, we wouldn't have conceded 3 soft goals at the end. The result would have been chalked down to a better performance by City instead of a mauling and a huge swing of power.

We beat Arsenal 8 - 2 at the start of the season yet I doubt we would have done that again in 100 matches against them. We are not 6 goals better than Arsenal and City are not 4 goals better than us. You genuinely are the most negative fan of a top team that I have ever seen. I can't see how you are not really optimistic about next season with the team we have. The transfer window is still young at any rate.
 
Moses said:
Whilst Hazard has won a player of the year award four times (twice young player, twice full award)... + played internationally + was a key figure in a league winning team (the French league being a reasonable one, in the eyes of most), as that was a year he was player of the year. It'd be truly ridiculous to deny Hazard is more proven.
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but does he wish he was a little bit taller?
 
Moses said:
There are. Eg. Cleverley's just played ten games for Manyoo. Whilst Hazard has won a player of the year award four times (twice young player, twice full award)... + played internationally + was a key figure in a league winning team (the French league being a reasonable one, in the eyes of most), as that was a year he was player of the year. It'd be truly ridiculous to deny Hazard is more proven.
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He is proven at that level. The same level that Gervinho looked like a great player. I think Hazard will be great but how has he proven he is good in the premier league. Kagawa won the german league with Dortmund (much stronger than the french) and turned over Bayern a couple of times that season and I wouldn't call him a proven player yet.

We obviously have different ideas of what "proven" means. I would be very surprised if Cleverley ever becomes near the quality that Hazard is but we simply don't know how he will turn out.
 
Purdy said:
Reading Manyoooooooo and Citeh every ****ing time is already painful enough.
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Iv been wondering for a while why it's not considered over stepping ye respect rule for the football stadium rules. It's very annoying and derrogutory to the clubs he's going on about, but doesn't seem enough to deem a rule break.
 
pingwing said:
Iv been wondering for a while why it's not considered over stepping ye respect rule for the football stadium rules. It's very annoying and derrogutory to the clubs he's going on about, but doesn't seem enough to deem a rule break.
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Gilly does it as well, so I guess it's allowed.
 
Gervinho will be fine next season anyway imo, had to go off to Africa, had a bad time there but he showed enough to encourage me
 
It is highly irritating, there's no point to it other than to be irritating really, but I'm sure there's been this discussion/groan before and it didn't get anywhere so never mind.

By the way, before the whole 'it only bothers Man Utd fans' thing, the 'citeh' is just as irritating and dumb.
 
Moses said:
I've never thought he looks awful... but the thing that sticks out is the horrible, horrible choking which rears it's head when he's in a goal scoring position!
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Yeah he looked nervous occasionally, but that will come with time I think, he does some amazing things to get into those positions though, best dribbler we have had in years.
 
Moses said:
They're more unproven than Cleverley? Cleverley's played for Manyoo TEN TIMES. Ten. One more than nine. And has never been capped by England.

Marin played for Werder Bremen 87 times. And has been capped 16 times by Germany. He's only five months older than Cleverley.

Then Hazard - he was the first non-French player to win the young player of the year award, and was the only player to ever win it twice. He then won the player of the year award twice. He's then played 147 times for Lille and 28 times for Belgium. He's basically one year and five months younger than Cleverley.

Obviously they're not guaranteed to be ridiculous ballers... but to say they're a lot more unproven than Cleverley is absolute folly.
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Cleverley hasnt moved to another country / another league

He played 20-30 games for Wigan before he came back to Utd (Im not saying thats much but it quadruples the amount you mentioned), and valuable experience in the EPL which ever way you want to look at it.

Oscar and Hazard are also moving away from home - they may settle , they may not , but its completely irrelevant vs Cleverley

Several factors which you blindly ignore....but why isnt that a surprise coming from you
 
Seems like Utd, City and Juventus are all in for RVP. Looks like hes definitely not signing a new contract which is a shame after all teh support we have given him over the years...the injury prone player that he is.

If he does go to City or Utd, i really hope he gets injured...that way both Utd or City can deal with him being out for a few yrs:p. Its not something i want to wish on a player who was superb last season but the way he has acted ie telling Arsenal how to run a club, i have zero sympathy for him.

Good luck to him where ever he goes...ideally id like to see him go to Juventus in all honesty.
 
Moses said:
I haven't mentioned Oscar, as he hasn't signed. I'm talking about Hazard and Marin.

Their past playing experience is not completely irrelevant, just because they've played in France/Germany respectively. Would Schweinsteiger be unproven/incomparable to Cleverley, if he moved to England? Lol.
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He'd be unproven in the EPL like Veron for instance :p

I'm on your Side btw, I reckon both Marin and Hazard are more proven in their respective careers so far and Have shown far more than cleverley, though I hate to take away from Cleverley, he started fantastically last season and I'm hoping he does again for our teams sake...
 
Yas786 said:
Seems like Utd, City and Juventus are all in for RVP. Looks like hes definitely not signing a new contract which is a shame after all teh support we have given him over the years...the injury prone player that he is.

If he does go to City or Utd, i really hope he gets injured...that way both Utd or City can deal with him being out for a few yrs:p. Its not something i want to wish on a player who was superb last season but the way he has acted ie telling Arsenal how to run a club, i have zero sympathy for him.

Good luck to him where ever he goes...ideally id like to see him go to Juventus in all honesty.
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i just can't see RVP going to city or united, simply out of respect for wenger and arsenal fans. he doesn't seem to me to be someone who is money driven and only city would give him a remarkable payrise.

yes, he probably has more chance of winning trophies at the manchester clubs but he has just as good a chance with a club overseas, which is where i believe he will go.
 
Moses said:
I'd like Cleverley to do well, too... as an England fan. I'd love for him to be awesome, and then for Wilshere to stop being crippled and fulfil his promise. Etc.

I just think it's ridiculous that people can deny that Hazard and Marin have done more in their careers, and that it'd be fair to expect more from Hazard/Marin/Kagawa, compared to Cleverley, next year.
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I expect Kagawa and Hazard to be the 2 big additions to the premier league next season IMO. Both are going to hopefully provide some brilliant individual creativity, anybody without David silva lacked last season.
 
cm1179 said:
i just can't see RVP going to city or united, simply out of respect for wenger and arsenal fans. he doesn't seem to me to be someone who is money driven and only city would give him a remarkable payrise.

yes, he probably has more chance of winning trophies at the manchester clubs but he has just as good a chance with a club overseas, which is where i believe he will go.
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Hopefully he will do the right thing and go overseas as id loathe for him to go to Utd or City. I dont know if he has any respect for Wenger especially as he basically said a few weeks back that Arsenal have no ambition, which comes across as a bit of a dig to Wenger as hes in charge of putting out a team on a weekly basis and hes the one who could win us trophies etc.

I dont think its about the money either as we were willing to give him £150k a week from what i heard...whether thats true or not is anyones guess. It was the same with Fabregas as we were giving him £100k plus a week but yet he still left as he was Barca through and through and there was every chance of him going seeing as Barca players were basically tapping him up.

Thats why i hope he chooses Juventus in the end or another overseas team, if he does then i wish him all the luck...i just wone be wishing him that sort of luck if he goes to another EPL team.
 
Liverpool don't seem to be put off by this agreement stopping BR signing any Swansea players within the first 12 months.

I really like him. Reminiscent of Xavi in terms of movement and linking patterns of play but lacks the final pass that Xavi possesses. He's 22 years old and won't be 23 till March so hopefully that pass will come but certainly has lots of potential and he'll add a lot of energy to our midfield. I can (hope) see Adam leaving to making room for him.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11731/7909870/Reds-step-up-Allen-interest
 
Yas786 said:
I dont think its about the money either as we were willing to give him £150k a week from what i heard...
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the arsenal board should have said RVP could name his price (well, within reason). he should be on the same as rooney (ok no one knows exactly what rooney is on but the £250k figure has been banded around) RVP is worth £250k p/w to arsenal, he's the reason they finished 3rd and he's their best chance of remaining competitive.

massive, massive loss to arsenal if he goes, especially considering some of the other wages they are flittering away. they have the money to invest, invest it. start with keeping RVP.
 
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