Caporegime
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If we spend big and still don't buy a central midfielder....
** ALL NEW (WITH RULES) Summer Transfer Window 2012/2013 Season Rumours/Signings **
- Thread starter Andybtsn
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CM is not needed. Keeping our current crop of midfielders (Carrick, Scholes, Cleverly, Ando) out of the treatment room is essential to allow Kagawa, Rooney, Tony V to flourish.
After watching last nights game, Fergie has some headaches
Assuming Arsenal would sell to us (just for arguments sake) one would imagine any move for RVP would surely be massively influenced by whether Berbatov goes and latest quotes on that subject are that that's far from a foregone conclusion.
tbh I'm already looking forward to next summers transfer window, after all that'll be without a doubt the summer Scholes and Giggs call it a day for good so I'm eagerly waiting to see if that will force Fergie's hand to buying a midfielder
tbh I'm already looking forward to next summers transfer window, after all that'll be without a doubt the summer Scholes and Giggs call it a day for good so I'm eagerly waiting to see if that will force Fergie's hand to buying a midfielder
(sorry for sticking my nose in as united are not my team) but this is a valid point, even i can see that. why is your obvious weak point not being addressed? it should've been the first on the shopping list.
Caporegime
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4 is not enough, especially as one of them is retiring imminently and the other two spent 95% of last season injured. And then there's the quality, those four would leave us massively lacking against our competitors, both in the UK and in Europe as seen last season.
No idea what we'd do with Lucas if that is true
How on earth does Nani, Young, Valencia, Lucas, Kagawa, Rooney and Welbeck/Hernandez fit into a lineup?!? Surely both Kagawa and Moura would want to be in the hole behind a striker?
Yeah, it is a bit odd. One thing is for certain though, he has a lot of potential.
He usually plays on the right side of attacking midfield, so he's not actually a winger per se. Think along the lines of David Silva, he's far from a winger but plays in that sort of area.
We could line up like so:
--- Carrick - Anderson ---
- Lucas --------- Kagawa -
-- Rooney - Welbeck/RvP --
With Rooney dropping deeper as he inevitably does.
However, this leaves us with no place for Nani, Young and Valencia...
Alternatively (at this point, forgive my 'Football Managerness'):
--- Carrick - Anderson ---
- Lucas -- Kagawa -- Nani -
---------- Rooney ----------
Obviously rotating in Young/Valencia/whoever else. Really, who knows what Fergie is planning. One thing's for sure, he doesn't seem worried about CM.
Sao Paulo confirmed one of our bids I believe.
Caporegime
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Why on earth should he take a weak ass offer. He's pretty poor, he's absolutely not top class and never ever will be, he hasn't the talent nor the physical attributes to make up for it, but Fergie has categorically made clear he is the number 2 striker at Utd, he's ahead of the well over 100k a week 30mil Berbatov and ahead of Hernandez, England ridiculously started him in the Euro's also. If he had played the number of games Berbatov had and was complaining about a weak deal you'd have a point, but Fergie made him the number 2 striker at what is the biggest club in the league, in his position if that is what my club decided i was, I'd want to be treated like it.
Haters going to hate? Are you talking about Rooney or Utd that I hate? Because aside from sticking up for Berbatov, I also stick up for Scholes and Neville when your fans have decided to stick the boot in to both.
The ONLY stats you posted that are actually relevant are the ones I left, and they only tell part of the story, and here is the rest of it. RVP has almost matched his league goal ratio DESPITE BEING AT A WORSE TEAM, he has beaten Rooney's goal ratio for national side but, neither are particularly useful measures as 85-90% of international games are against such truly awful sides it really doesn't matter.
Lets point out some other things, Rooney started as a striker, has been a first team striker his entire time there and has rarely struggled with injury.
RVP came to Arsenal as really a winger, he mostly played wide or not as the main striker, he's got a better minutes per goal than Rooney(only just) in the league. As for appearances, of all Rooney's Utd appearances only 21 have been as sub(in the league), RVP has appeared 45 times as a sub, over twice as much, despite playing significantly less. Game time wise RVP has played significantly less than Rooney, while still having a high goal scoring ratio per game, that only improves in terms of per minute played. Some of that was due to injury, much due to his first two years simply not being a certain starter, less on ability and more due to the other strikers we had.
But none of this changes the fact that RVP IS a much better player. He's only played as an out and out striker for the past 18 months, and he's beaten what Rooney has done playing as an out and out striker. Before that he played deeper, starting off more on the wing then playing as a withdrawn striker more often. He was better at both of these roles than Rooney.
It's really very simple, best passer, RVP, best finisher, RVP, best vision/creativity, RVP, best movement, RVP. Rooney has no stand out part of his game, because he isn't a stand out player. He's had the best team behind him his entire career at Utd, and has as a consequence done particularly well. Every part of RVP's game is better than Rooney's, some a little better, some a LOT better. Goal measure alone can't show that and neither can title count, do you want to compare Rooney's title count to a whole host of other Utd players, is Quinton Fortune a better player than RVP, or Fabregas, because he's won a bunch more titles than both...... no.
Do I think RVP and Rooney would both score less if they played for Wigan, yes, do I think Rooney would score less if he played for Arsenal, yes.
Without club blinders on, Rooney isn't remotely close to a top player, he can be highly effective, but I watch him play and aside from the very rare game he is rarely exceptional, every game he makes a multitude of embarrassingly poor passes.
As for being rude, I told him one thing was the biggest pile of **** I'd read on these forums, because he's been saying it for ages and is completely wrong about it, I don't remember calling him a name, or resorting to pointing out anything about how he posts.
There are people that are genuinely rude on these forums, normally to me or Cheets or a few others, then there are those who insist telling someone they are wrong is rude.
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Morrison wasn't due to wages, Fergie didn't want to keep him, so they sold him. That's been said.
Pogba was a whole load of madness that was seemingly agent driven for the pay off as it was reported we were offering more wages to it was just mad.
Fryers isn't good enough to make it at the club I don't believe either, so I'm not fussed there.
The quote for the Welbeck stuff is from manutd.com:
It could be difficult to say where that is at the moment for any number of reasons, not automatically because they can't agree on wages or something.
I see no reason that Welbeck won't sign a new contract.
One of the following;
Fergie being stubborn
Fergie having a blind spot to the position that is central midfield
Fergie being too loyal to the likes of Fletcher who imo is now clearly finished at the highest level
Fergie having faith (maybe undue faith) in the likes of Anderson (and to a lesser extent maybe Cleverley)
Fergie is actually planning on playing Kagawa there
One things for sure we aren't buying a recognised central midfielder in this window
Also, can we please have suggestions of all of these CM that we should be signing?
You know, apart from just saying 'Yeah well we could buy him from here because he's meant to be quite good and would only cost £13million.' - We all know there's far more to a transfer than that and it's quite frustrating to see the constant WANT for a CM but not really any realistic targets that we should apparently be after.
It does seem as if there was some weight behind all of the Modric rumours and things, so it is not as if there has not been attempts to sign someone of quality for the middle of the park.
We aren't going to go out and spend £15million on someone that ain't going to cut the mustard just to satisfy peoples desire for a CM.
EDIT: The above post by Tom84 proves my point. Why is it all just Fergie is blind etc, why isn't it the fact that there isn't really anyone out there, bar perhaps Modric, which we seemed to have tried to purchase, that is realistic or likely to be signed.
You know, apart from just saying 'Yeah well we could buy him from here because he's meant to be quite good and would only cost £13million.' - We all know there's far more to a transfer than that and it's quite frustrating to see the constant WANT for a CM but not really any realistic targets that we should apparently be after.
It does seem as if there was some weight behind all of the Modric rumours and things, so it is not as if there has not been attempts to sign someone of quality for the middle of the park.
We aren't going to go out and spend £15million on someone that ain't going to cut the mustard just to satisfy peoples desire for a CM.
EDIT: The above post by Tom84 proves my point. Why is it all just Fergie is blind etc, why isn't it the fact that there isn't really anyone out there, bar perhaps Modric, which we seemed to have tried to purchase, that is realistic or likely to be signed.
We offered Morrison a new contract, we wouldn't of done that had we not wanted to keep him. Granted he had a lot of baggage and there probably was more to letting him go than just failing to agree monetary terms but I reckon that was half the problem. As for Pogba I agree it probably was agent driven but him and Fryers (whether you rated him or not) are just 2 more cases of allowing young talent to leave on a free due to failing to get them on new long term deals something the club has never had problems doing previously.
For the record I dont care that Morrison went, I dont care Pogba and Fryers have gone either and if Welbeck goes so be it also but it's undeniable that there's been a change in the way the club deals with it's 'reserve team' players and how late in the day they chose to open up talks with them over new deals.
Caporegime
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You truly believe there is no-one out there that is available and better than what we have?
I asked for suggestions of these players that people are crying out to be signed.
Please go ahead and suggest some realistic targets.
Here's a Lucas video (if you haven't watched it yet):
I know Youtube videos aren't really representative of anything, but they're an interesting watch anyway.
I've also seem him play a couple of times for Brazil and thought he looked decent then, too.
I know Youtube videos aren't really representative of anything, but they're an interesting watch anyway.
I've also seem him play a couple of times for Brazil and thought he looked decent then, too.
It was reported by quite a few places when talking about Pogba in a press conference that SAF himself said that 'we wanted to sell Morrison' when he was saying how he wanted to keep Pogba.
Infact, it was in response to Vieras madness;
There are several other reserve team players that have signed new contracts lately no problem that have also been close to running out. You have to question why these specific players haven't signed them and others have, in all three of those cases it's seemingly been different reasons (although Fryers is quite unclear), yet other youngsters are signing contracts fine.
Because that's a load of tosh to put it bluntly, at the moment the club have Carrick, Scholes, Anderson, Cleverley, Fletcher & Giggs as recognised central midfielders, 2 of those are entering their last year of playing, 2 have very patchy fitness records, 1 could well be retired right now for all we know and the other is not only no spring chicken himself he's also very much a confidence player rather than someone who can just take a game by the scruff of it's neck and drive the team forward.
No one is going to convince me even someone like Dembele wouldn't improve us, not just in terms of squad depth but also ability wise in the starting XI (if nothing else he's better than Anderson). Cabaye's another one who I doubt would break the bank (£20m or so would get him imo) and again no one is going to convince me he's not better than at least 3 of our 6. It's not only players like Modric and Martinez who cost upwards of £35m who could improve our midfield.
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Caporegime
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Do I look like a scout
How could I possibly know who is available without being in contact with clubs and player's representatives? You seem to have bought completely into Fergie's "There's only a few players out there who could improve us and they aren't available" line. I do know there are plenty of great (and even good) players out there and I refuse to believe that for four odd seasons a club of United's stature with the scouting team we have cannot find a single player that improves on the 'midfield' we have. Which is so utterly **** that a retired player had to come out of retirement to help us out.
Do you have a list to which 'reserve team' players these are that have recently signed new deals? I'd imagine though that the difference between lets say the likes of Turncliff and Lingaard signing new deals and the likes of Fryers, Morrison and Pogba not would be that the latter three are/were much closer to being first team players thus have more bargaining power
Dembele I'm pretty sure from what I've read in the past few days has committed himself to Fulham and said how much he likes playing under Jol.
With regards to Cabaye, he's been playing well in a Newcastle side however he is playing in a side where he seems pretty settled with a good group of french players with him too. I can't see Newcastle wanting to sell one of their best players as they are becoming an ambitious club and it's not going to happen if they keep flogging their best players off. This in addition to all the talk of him to us totally cooling down, I don't really see it as a viable option.
Sure, I could be totally wrong on both fronts and they could come to us, great, but it doesn't look likely for many reasons.
Do I look like a scout
I do know there are plenty of great (and even good) players out there and I refuse to believe that for four odd seasons a club of United's stature with the scouting team we have cannot find a single player that improves on the 'midfield' we have. Which is so utterly **** that a retired player had to come out of retirement to help us out.
Nor am I a scout, hence why I don't suggest we should buy this that and the other player. I haven't bought into that line, I'm just not so blind that I can see further than my nose too.
Please, in those four seasons, what have we won with the such terrible midfield?
Yes, we could be improved in the centre of the park, but it's not as simple as saying 'Yeah that Dembele or Cabaye looks good, lets get them for £20 million!'.
The club have seemingly made attempts to sign players, including Dembele, Cabaye and Modric, but it hasn't come off.
It also seems that the club is more focused on buying youth players and attempting to bring them into the squad, ala Jones and Smalling.
When you have (€38 million for Moura) to spend on a central midfielder, you always have quite a few options if we are being honest.
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