Steam Subscriber Argeement

MikeHunt79 said:
It's the same thing with Blizzard games. If you read the Starcraft 2 agreement, it also says you own a license to play the game, as opposed to the game itself.

I guess this is so they can ban cheaters with impunity. ;)
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That's generally how they say most if not all software works. The point of the EU ruling was to allow people to sell on their property, which you could just argue is the license to use the software.

I honestly don't see the point in a company trying to set up a secondhand market place for digital games, I'm pretty sure the spirit of the EU ruling was with regards to a simple transfer of ownership.

In which case, a simple method would for Steam to just implement a system whereby games are transferred between accounts, rather than simply being relinquished to a serial code, that you could apply to any account you want.
 
It will not work with Steam.

As a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content available to Subscribers. The Steam client software and any other software, content, and updates you download or access via Steam, including but not limited to Valve or third-party video games and in-game content, and any virtual items you trade in the Steam Trading Marketplace, are referred to in this Agreement as “Software”; the rights to access and/or use any services, software and/or content accessible through Steam are referred to in this Agreement as "Subscriptions."
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Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Software onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement, including the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software. To make use of the Software, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.
discretion.
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You do not own the license that is given to play any game, you do not own the game, the CD-Key, anything. You are paying a 1 time subscription fee to access that particular game and it's assets on the Steam servers, which lasts and undisclosed amount of time, nothing more. Steam can revoke 1 or all of your games at any time, for any reason (Even no reason at all). The EU courts don't have any power because it clearly states the terms by which you acquire and use your games before you sign up, there is no license you own which can be traded and there's no ownership of the game which can be traded.
 
Aedus said:
It will not work with Steam.





You do not own the license that is given to play any game, you do not own the game, the CD-Key, anything. You are paying a 1 time subscription fee to access that particular game and it's assets on the Steam servers, which lasts and undisclosed amount of time, nothing more. Steam can revoke 1 or all of your games at any time, for any reason (Even no reason at all). The EU courts don't have any power because it clearly states the terms by which you acquire and use your games before you sign up, there is no license you own which can be traded and there's no ownership of the game which can be traded.
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:rolleyes: just like bank fees where clearly stated. An illegal contract is not enforceable. Go read the EU ruling, it makes it clear as day what there take is and the Steal Cntract would be bod under such a ruling. The EU courts very much do have the power.
 
Aedus said:
You do not own the license that is given to play any game, you do not own the game, the CD-Key, anything. You are paying a 1 time subscription fee to access that particular game and it's assets on the Steam servers, which lasts and undisclosed amount of time, nothing more. Steam can revoke 1 or all of your games at any time, for any reason (Even no reason at all). The EU courts don't have any power because it clearly states the terms by which you acquire and use your games before you sign up, there is no license you own which can be traded and there's no ownership of the game which can be traded.
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Buy game on steam....

Download pirate version...

I own it now :D
 
Considering that steam has so been benevolent with their side of the agreement, as in not randomly removing our games for laughs, i am pretty sure i don't mind not being able to sell my usage of the games on there.

But i think we should see how the courts deal with things first, speculating is rather useless, there have been a fair few times when the courts have surprised us, gaming regulations and laws are very new after all.
 
Sin_Chase said:
Oh deary me.

I give up.

Common Sense says you cannot rent for an unlimited period of time but you can rent for 999 years.

Seriously, SERIOUSLY?

Common sense would dictate that 999 years IS an unlimited amount of time for your average person.
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I disagree with everything else you've said, but this is absolutely correct.
The legal sites that discussed the ruling pointed out that law considers the practical reality. If steam offered you what they said was a subscription for 99 years, the courts would absolutely treat that as the same as a sale, not a rental, because in practical terms, you will have it as long as need it.

House mortgages in some countries have a term of 99 years for a completely different reason: houses are expensive, and a 99 year term makes it much easier for people to get into the housing market, and also to move on to other houses.
 
Aedus said:
You do not own the license that is given to play any game, you do not own the game, the CD-Key, anything.
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Honestly, people should go read the ruling.
The court case that triggered this thread was in essence, about this:
software companies (including gaming publishers) claim their product is a license. Is this true?
And they found that no, this was not true.
The question comes down to: Is their something about software that makes it different enough from other goods (such as music, magazines, movies, etc.) that requires a different concept of ownership?
The answer, clearly to anyone with common sense, is no.

People are letting their emotions and fear of harm to the gaming industry cloud their judgement. Personally I think those fears are completely well founded - we live in an age where games are pirated. How can allowing second hand gaming sales do more damage than that? It's silly. And PC games are thriving in this environment, just music sales and video sales. So there's nothing to fear.

Some companies may need to move with the times and adapt; the market will change. But that's nothing new in the Information Age. If steam and other companies cant adapt, they'll be the dinosaurs, and new companies will replace them. Either way, the gaming market will continue to thrive.
 
http://www.change.org/petitions/val...tion-12-of-the-new-steam-subscriber-agreement

Signed.

Can't believe people would actually be ok with what Valve/Steam are trying to do here.

A few things they are blocking:

No opt out (games held to ransom).
VPN's and other methods of obscuring your location breach their terms.
Blocking of refunds if you download a game (you could get them to overlook this, but I think they are trying to reinforce it so they have reworded it).
They still claim they have the right to take away/block your account if they want.

I'd rather just have all my money back and let Steam die.
 
Aedus said:
It will not work with Steam.

You do not own the license that is given to play any game, you do not own the game, the CD-Key, anything. You are paying a 1 time subscription fee to access that particular game and it's assets on the Steam servers, which lasts and undisclosed amount of time, nothing more. Steam can revoke 1 or all of your games at any time, for any reason (Even no reason at all). The EU courts don't have any power because it clearly states the terms by which you acquire and use your games before you sign up, there is no license you own which can be traded and there's no ownership of the game which can be traded.
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Thing is though, is do you actually own the game ?

Steam say you don't, but given your are effectively entitled to rent it for life (as nobody is likely to live to 999) then you'd have to come to the conclusion that the entire thing has been created to attempt to circument such EU rulings using the EULA.

Which the courts have said won't wash.

What is the difference between a game you own, and one that is rented to you for 9999 years ? Little is the answer. And the EU knows this.

Sin_Chase said:
Has anyone stopped to think that the way in which Steam works and the great deals we get on some titles in sales is because there is no second hand market.

If Steam offers no "protection" against second hand sales then maybe developers will just ramp up their prices to combat their second hand sale losses and we all lose out.

This could ultimately just be a law which shafts us for the sake of it "being the law!"

Yes, we are protecting your rights under EU law but the ACTUAL reality is the model in which your products were bought has been shafted and you will end up paying more......enjoy!
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I think the solution would be quite simply force fees on the user like they have on ebay.

That way both the publisher and steam could take a cut of any money exchanged for the sale of the game.
 
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MrLOL said:
I think the solution would be quite simply force fees on the user like they have on ebay.

That way both the publisher and steam could take a cut of any money exchanged for the sale of the game.
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Sounds like a good idea. Game ownership transfer fee - £50. I like it :)
 
Gzero said:
A few things they are blocking:

No opt out (games held to ransom).
VPN's and other methods of obscuring your location breach their terms.
Blocking of refunds if you download a game (you could get them to overlook this, but I think they are trying to reinforce it so they have reworded it).
They still claim they have the right to take away/block your account if they want.

I'd rather just have all my money back and let Steam die.
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Along with this, they have also changed the EULA in regards to your personal details so they can sell them onto a third party if they want.

If Origin was doing this then this forum would be all over it like a fly on ****. Considering the way Steam is heading, I'm going to seriously consider if I want to buy games on there in the future, especially if they are available on places like GOG who just let you have your games without any fuss.
 
I think if Steam did ever go down the pan and revoke access to everything we'd bought there'd be hell to pay, regardless of what they put in the EULA.
 
I'm sure someone's already covered this but presumably if you didn't agree to the revised agreement, you'd lose access to the games you had already bought under the old agreement?

Surely that's not legal.
 
PiKe said:
I'm sure someone's already covered this but presumably if you didn't agree to the revised agreement, you'd lose access to the games you had already bought under the old agreement?

Surely that's not legal.
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Yeah that is pretty harsh.
Can just imagine Gabe holding a gun to everyone's games saying, "Sign this or the games get it!"
As much as I'm on the fence about the EU ruling, Steam's reaction and attempt to get around it by forcing customers to sign an "illegal" (?) contract, or forfeit access to the games they paid for, seems terribly regressive and immature.
 
Simi said:
Yeah that is pretty harsh.
Can just imagine Gabe holding a gun to everyone's games saying, "Sign this or the games get it!"
As much as I'm on the fence about the EU ruling, Steam's reaction and attempt to get around it by forcing customers to sign an "illegal" (?) contract, or forfeit access to the games they paid for, seems terribly regressive and immature.
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These terms have been in there for years and please explain to me when anyone has actually had their access to games removed from them?

Chargebacks and having your account stolen do not count.
 
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