Soldato
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Apple becomes most valuable firm of all time
- Thread starter Merlin5
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Soldato
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They probably have. They're just not announcing it to the world. Usual Apple secrecy. Not like it's harming their share price either.
Soldato
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Coming from a pretty broad and experienced IT background, I'd have to say that Apple is about the worst user experience I've had to deal with. Whether it is having perfectly good functionality taken away from the users only to have to brought back as a pay to use functionality or in the way that purchasing things from Apple is a complete sham (for example buying extra RAM costs literally 10x as much as getting it from elsewhere). I find Apple to be a condescending and ultimately fruitless path to go down especially once you've locked yourself into the much vaunted 'Apple Ecosystem'. I would only ever advise someone to get Apple products if their use was as cosmetic as the products and they have plenty of cash.
Ultimately I think that Apple has appealed to the 'magpie' nature of people with disposable income and done it extraordinarily well, but in the process they have pulled the wool over the eyes of those same people. The worst thing to come out of all of this is we're now seeing Microsoft try to do exactly the same thing with Windows 8 except the users out there already using their product are of a much more discerning nature and actively bypass rubbish products. The same cannot be said for Apple consumers who take whatever they're forcefully spoon fed.
IMO of course.
Ultimately I think that Apple has appealed to the 'magpie' nature of people with disposable income and done it extraordinarily well, but in the process they have pulled the wool over the eyes of those same people. The worst thing to come out of all of this is we're now seeing Microsoft try to do exactly the same thing with Windows 8 except the users out there already using their product are of a much more discerning nature and actively bypass rubbish products. The same cannot be said for Apple consumers who take whatever they're forcefully spoon fed.
IMO of course.
If you were apple, what would you do with $110B in reserves?
I think it would be quite hard to actually make a decent purchase for them really...
Is anything 'really' missing from there lineup, what markets should they expand into?
I think it would be quite hard to actually make a decent purchase for them really...
Is anything 'really' missing from there lineup, what markets should they expand into?
Public companies cannot keep purchases of other companies/patents/xyz a secret.
Apple's retained earnings (the cash it keeps offshore) is a big problem. Investors don't like it because, obviously, cash in the bank doesn't generate any return above inflation, so it's like a dead duck.
On the other hand, the fact that the company cannot find something to do with it that would be higher than it's opportunity cost (in this case a savings interest rate) is troublesome as it points out to strategy problems.
All in all, having all that money in the bank is of no good to shareholders, so they either want to see it employed in some good-return investment or returned back to them - because they _own_ the company anyway, so the 'fat dividend' is actually their money.
It's unlikely they would start paying a dividend as that's associated with lower growth firms and not an impression Apple wants to give, but not impossible. There is obviously major pressure for it from their investors.
They make decent purchases all the time, the Israeli flash firm for $500m was one of their biggest. The Siri developers. But they probably won't make a multi-billion investment, again it's not really their ethos.
Hard to say what is missing without being on the inside, but they undoubtedly have plans for their portfolio of patents and suppliers. I wouldn't be surprised to see more backwards vertical integration to secure themselves for the future. They already pretty much control their entire supply chain though so.. to be honest, not much is going to dent $100bn in reserves, unless you want to bail out Greece..
Soldato
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Did someone say they have more money in the bank than the Federal Reserve or did I just make that up? 
Then it wouldn't be shown as cash on their balance sheet if it's invested.
See above. At best they would have it in deposit accounts earning interest but then it wouldn't be current assets depending on the access terms.
Pay a dividend.
Pretty sure they are now offering a dividend.
They could buy a Greek Island or two I guess, and since the Greek tax record, it would be a nice little tax haven
They will probably try and cut their dependence on Samsung parts and technologies if they can, but I don't know of any other suppliers who can offer the same quality and quantity of components.
Did someone say they have more money in the bank than the Federal Reserve or did I just make that up?
They did at one time.
The US needed to raise their self imposed debt ceiling to pay their bills, but the political parties were threatening not to sign it to get certain bills and laws passed. The amount of cash the US had dwindled in this time and Apple overtook them at one point.
They raised the ceiling in the end and borrowed more, so they don't have more cash currently. Though we are coming close to the next time they need to raise the debt ceiling...
Soldato
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I know it's on the books as a cash reserve; I'm simply saying that Apple have plans for everything including that money. They aren't a company that has knee jerk reactions, hence why they haven't rewponded to the current batch of (good) Android phones. Apple does what it thinks is best and not in reaction to what other companies have done.
Still a lot of cash to be sitting on.
Still a lot of cash to be sitting on.
![[FnG]magnolia](/styles/overclockers/avatars/9.png){kind=avatar}
Caporegime
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I don't think these words mean what you think they mean
OR
I've misunderstood entirely the concept of competition in the market place AND over-estimated the desires of shareholders.
Why would you just spend it. Look at Nokia, things change and when that happens you need a bucket load of cash to reshape the organisation. If it wasn't for nokia massive assets they would have failed.
It's not like they don't spend money on
Assets, research, patents, lawsuits or anything else. It's a bit pointless spending for the sake of it.
It's not like they don't spend money on
Assets, research, patents, lawsuits or anything else. It's a bit pointless spending for the sake of it.
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Soldato
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Just not true I'm afraid.
Or at least it didn't used to be... I don't like the fact they have seemingly forgotten/ignored the professional market as a sacrifice to their commercial money makers the iphone and ipad. The "Pro" range of goods aren't really that anymore, FCPX was a disaster but I've not tried new Logic offerings. It's hardly surprising but a shame from my point of view as I enjoy working on macs.
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The build quality on their laptops is ridiculously good too, feel like a solid slab of metal. Even high end Thinkpads etc. aren't close. Ultrabooks are definitely closing the gap very quickly, but often you'll pay just as much or more for one.
How much time is spent keep making new playlists and switching songs? For a lot of people it would be worth the larger initial outlay so they don't have to spend an hour every week switching songs about.
There's also a lot of people who travel often, listen whilst working or have a lot of video content. Just because your specific set of uses and values isn't congruous with the product it doesn't make the product itself bad.
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Soldato
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The simple reply to that is "Why bother?".
Their software isn't that good, so they can't compete with Microsoft in the enterprise space. Adobe has taken up a significant position in the creative industrial software space. Hardware margins are slim, and the only way they really turn a profit on it is by offering extremely ropey after-sales support, removing user-servicable parts and effectively turn them into disposable commodities to access their ecosystem (as mentioned earlier in the thread).
What Apple realised is that if you create an app marketplace where the developer gets a relatively good quality platform, extremely strong DRM and a fairly good distribution deal, it's quids in. Added to that, Iphones and Ipads are premium products in their respective markets, the users are more likely to have disposable income to buy the apps.
Valve have done a good job achieving a similar feat on the PC platform, the only issue is that they don't have a closed development ecosystem, and in turn have no monopoly over the access to software available on Steam.
I doubt they can get any interest on that cash. When you have too much cash you are less likely to get any interest. Just look at what's happening with bonds and their negative yields. Investors are paying governments to hold on to their cash for short amounts of time, don't you think they would have put it in a bank account instead and earn interest?
Multibillion cash piles need protection that no bank can adequately give. Also, it becomes a burden for the bank to see it's deposits suddenly swell by so much because they need to invest that money somewhere to make a return, out of which they will pay that interest to the depositor. The more the cash the harder it is to invest it, so the lower interest rate you can offer the depositor.
You can be just fine with having non-cash current assets. You don't need to hold massive cash piles 'just in case'.
Also, there is a very good reason why they should spend it or return it as dividend. If they don't know what to do with it, give it back to the investors who are the rightful owners anyway. It's their money after all and they have better uses for it than having it stowed away at some offshore account without earning any good interest or put to good use.
They haven't traditionally given back to investors, so investors shouldn't expect it, it's wasted money and they did give a dividend this year, anyway.
As for assets, they do buy them. Again it's pointless spending money for the sake of it. They are hardly saving money at the detriment of the business. It's just they can aford to spend what they need to and still have money left over. Not like, they aren't building a new multi million dollar headquarter is it.
As for assets, they do buy them. Again it's pointless spending money for the sake of it. They are hardly saving money at the detriment of the business. It's just they can aford to spend what they need to and still have money left over. Not like, they aren't building a new multi million dollar headquarter is it.
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Soldato
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Totally agreed. I'm hoping another small firm will follow in the footsteps of the old Apple ethos but with the market and demand as it is, it seems very very unlikely.