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Borderlands 2 PhysX can be forced to run on the CPU

Its quite easy to have a discussion on the performance differential across different hardware combinations without resorting to even mentioning the word 'fanboy'.

.....well, if you're not 12.
 
What does it matter what they use?

Dont tell me your another ATI owner,i bet you are arnt you?I would like to know what card he has,probably an inferior card to mine,if my 690 is mid range then his card must be entry level:p

When the 780 comes out ill be buying 2 of those also and using this 690 as a physx card(yes i know 1 gpu is wasted),basically because i can as im financially secure,however i may donate it in a competition on here for ATI owners that are less fortunate so they can play the game the way its meant to be played.:D
Watch this space.....
 
Dont tell me your another ATI owner,i bet you are arnt you?I would like to know what card he has,probably an inferior card to mine,if my 690 is mid range then his card must be entry level:p

When the 780 comes out ill be buying 2 of those also and using this 690 as a physx card(yes i know 1 gpu is wasted),basically because i can as im financially secure,however i may donate it in a competition on here for ATI owners that are less fortunate so they can play the game the way its meant to be played.:D
Watch this space.....

Your financially secure, yet your acting like a 12 year old kid, how sad.
 
[Grammar Police]

God some of the grammar in here...

Please learn the difference between your and you're if only for the sake on my sanity! :)

[/Grammar Police]
 
What I don't get is if you all like Physx that much why not just lobby AMD to actually license it? they're happy to charge as much as NVidia for their GPU's but offer less features. What happened to the physics technology that AMD were supporting? couldn't they be bothered?

Because I don't want AMD paying for and passing on the costs of supporting Physx, which is a tech that is purposefully unoptimised for the CPU just so you have to use a gpu, just so Nvidia have an advantage. Every split second Physx is using a gpu, that is less framerate your gpu is providing, while in 99% of games the cpu goes along with almost no usage. My gpu is at 100%, while my CPU is at 20-40% depending on the game.... if physx was optimised for the cpu(which it can, and should be) I could use that cpu power rather than DIVERT the gpu power away from things its already doing.

The fact that physx even optimised is still needlessly overdone and completley unneccessary.

THe vast majority of what is stripped out from physx high to low in this game... doesn't need physx, a gpu, or even much cpu power. Most of it is stuff other games have done for donkeys years using next to no power. A couple of other things, needless amount of debrie on the floor....

I'd respect Nvidia if they helped companies add that... and AMD didn't get it, if they didn't also pay the dev's to remove bog standard effects and ruin other users experiences.
 
on my Gigabyte 7970 OCed to 1150mhz core and i5 2500k 4.5ghz i can run high until you get to tha caverns part then everything slows down, certain parts of the game i get 120fps (using a 120hz monitor), then there are other parts that stick to around 60fps but in the caverns i have seen it drop to 20!
 
now now boys and girls back to the game enjoy it or leave it nothing constructive about the game here at the min

i think they have put a lot more thought into it from B1 the who interface is fantastic and 2k and gearbox have managed to pull off great second offering of the game
 
Nvidia brought the PhysX tech why wouldn't that lock out AMD cards it’s a business decision I’m sure the vast majority of the people here would do the same.

Despite this I would much prefer there being a hardware based PhysX like standard that was able to produce similar effects. There is not sadly, Havok not taking this route of software AND hardware effects do not help so Nvidia are left to peruse it them self’s.

DirectCompute + OpenCL are too late in the game now to help, if they were around when DX10 was released and other physics solutions (Havok/Bullet) supported them with hardware physics effects etc things would be better.
 
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Was the other half you typing with your teeth? :p

No but seriously, I wasn't really able to follow what you were trying to get across.



Is this a question?

To sum it up in as few as words as possible for you:

Nvidia own PhysX why would'nt they lock out there main competitor I would.

The is no alterative for hardware based physics effects.

OpenCL and DirectCompute being late to the game does not help. Third party physics solutions like Havok and Bullet do not offer hardware based physics effects via OpenCL or DirectCompute.

Even you should be able to understand.
 
So when AMD launched eyefinity, what did Nvidia do they developed their own surround monitor system they even had to redesign their new cards to allow more outputs to be used.
When Nvidia launched self overclocking cards (boost clock), AMD responded with their own version.
I'm sure that the next generation of Nvidia cards will have something to rival zero core power.
When Nvidia allowed multiple cards to be used together (sli) AMD soon followed suit with crossfire.
Nvidia launched 3D vision formally (GeForce 3D Vision) AMD followed suit with HD3D.

So the question should be why hasn't AMD done anything about Physx they have open CL and direct compute but they haven't actually done anything that isn't a general compute process specifically for physics in games. Physx was developed in 2004 and bought by Nvidia in 2008 and yet AMD still haven't done anything about it.

The point of all this is, how is it Nvidia's fault if AMD haven't come up with something that works as well or even better that make that one proprietary system Physx irrelevant.

You don't see arguments over eyefinity/surround or sli/crossfire because both sides have a working similar system.
 
The same reason AMD haven't put individual game profiles in their drivers and who haven't implemented proper 3D support without 3rd party software. They want you money but can't be bothered to go the extra mile.
 
The point is that Borderlands 2 is the absolute pinnacle of PhysX, which is arguably a bad thing considering how long it's been around.

Now, the PhysX in Borderlands 2 is very nice, it adds to the graphics very nicely, but everything that goes on doesn't really require a GPU to process it, it's all fairly basic stuff that we've been seeing in games separately for years without "PhysX". Take a look at the Frostbite Engine and all the physics effects it can do without running on the GPU.

It all could easily run from a CPU, but it's hobbled for CPU usage, when there's a GPU option available to exaggerate the performance numbers. Outside of that, very few games even use hardware PhysX, so arguably there hasn't even been anything for AMD to do.

On top of that, the ONLY reason AMD would ever have for developing a hardware physics API would be to add as a checkbox feature on the product packaging. Think about it, the reason why PhysX isn't even used much (and even when it's used, the features aren't ground breaking) is because the developer needs/wants to sell their game to everyone with a GPU fast enough to run it.

If features are implemented PhysX wise that are an integral part of the game, only nVidia users would be able to play it, and no developer is going to chop a load of their potential market off like that, which is why PhysX will never take off as a proprietary API, and it's also the reason why physics effects that would actually benefit from a GPU's extra power won't happen if/until an open standard of hardware physics is established.

But I can't see that happening. Physics effects will get better as CPUs in general get better, and developers have more power to work with in general unless a third party company steps in. PhysX really isn't the type of thing that should be owned by a GPU manufacturer because it's so open to abuse then. Think if OpenGL or Direct X was owned by nVidia.

As for 3D and AMD apparently can't be arsed, it's hardly that case at all. Every company knows proprietary systems don't last very long, what real incentive has AMD got to develop a 3D system when there are other companies working on it, whose software is hardware agnostic, it's not like they have 0 involvement, they work with the companies behind the software to make sure it runs properly. Proprietary systems only benefit the company in charge of them, and 3D vision from nVidia, whilst being directly supported by nVidia is doing the opposite of what you want. The best type of 3D implementation will come from a system that any hardware can make use of (provided it's speced to of course). 3D vision will at some point (which may even be now) hindering further developments of 3D on PCs if nVidia is paying companies to invest in it.
 
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So the question should be why hasn't AMD done anything about Physx they have open CL and direct compute but they haven't actually done anything that isn't a general compute process specifically for physics in games. Physx was developed in 2004 and bought by Nvidia in 2008 and yet AMD still haven't done anything about it.


They have now, a bit late, but yes, It's not called Physx or anything like that, They use Direct Compute OpenCL to render Advanced AA, Lighting and Physics, It all falls under the 'Gaming Evolved' Umbrella.
 
On top of that, the ONLY reason AMD would ever have for developing a hardware physics API would be to add as a checkbox feature on the product packaging. Think about it, the reason why PhysX isn't even used much (and even when it's used, the features aren't ground breaking) is because the developer needs/wants to sell their game to everyone with a GPU fast enough to run it.

You could say the exact same thing about eyefinity, its a checkbox feature, it has to be coded into the game to allow it to be used, the same with SLI it has to be coded for.
The thing is that both features have a counterpart from the other company, which over time have been coded for as well so now nearly everything is crossfire/SLI, eyefinity/surround ready which make these features a moot point.

But AMD have nothing to combat Physx and you cant use openCL or direct compute as examples because both sides support them anyway.
 
You could say the exact same thing about eyefinity, its a checkbox feature, it has to be coded into the game to allow it to be used, the same with SLI it has to be coded for.
The thing is that both features have a counterpart from the other company, which over time have been coded for as well so now nearly everything is crossfire/SLI, eyefinity/surround ready which make these features a moot point.

But AMD have nothing to combat Physx and you cant use openCL or direct compute as examples because both sides support them anyway.

OpenCL or direct computer are just a API/instruction set to get things to work graphics card (a some what generalisation). This is why I mentioned other physics engines like havok/bullet. If Havok chose to do something similar with Direct Compute or Open CL it would put a lot of pressure on Nvidia to open up Hardware Physics. Look what happened to SLI only on Nvidia motherboards after all .

PhysX which I think is up to 3.2 now, just happens to use CUDA instead for hardware acceleration. In "theory" I guess nVidia could try and get it to work.

Therese plenty of games on the PC and console out there that used a software based PhysX for more "standard" effects.

I do remember the fun days I had with 5850's in xfire and using a old 8800GT for Batman AA :)
 
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