I'm in the wrong job! £60 an hour for playing make believe!

mrjagga · 19 Nov 2012 at 20:53

DAnDan said:
How do you know there's not a purple elephant about to stick his **** in your ear and scramble your brain? You don't apparently.

The key thing to remember here is logic. For either of those things to exist, they'd need to violate nearly every law of physics we have, and completely defy every aspect of common sense. I see no evidence that they exist (purple elephant, ghosts, jinns, gods) and MANY reasons why they cannot. Therefore it's a pretty safe, and logical assumption to say they don't.

Yes, we can't prove it, but that doesn't mean that it's an equal argument for and against their existence. EVERYTHING we have says they don't, nothing says they do. Fairly simple to explain that way.

So basically, youve just confirmed what i have said, you cant prove they dont exist and you dont know that they dont exist.

spoffle · 19 Nov 2012 at 20:56

Xordium said:
Hitchen's argument is faulty there though (which he acknowledges and later clarifies). His issue was really with the subservient and unquestioning acts that are in the name of religion, someone who assumed a traditional religious role eg the god Emperor of Japan+Mao etc, or indeed anything else that was blindly followed. That's a misrepresentation of his refined arguments.

This is kinda part of the argument I was making before where people use things as proof as it IS proof to them.

The Hitchens argument there is really about things like the actions of those Catholic priests, or those Rabbis who do the circumcision blood sucking thing.

mrjagga · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:00

I dont know why religious threads aint banned on OcuK, the forums just full of atheists anyway, so why discuss what you don't believe in, ur just gonna come to the same conclusion every single time and every thread becomes predictable.

Just a thought/

spoffle · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:03

The problem regardless of their beliefs is that most people don't seem able to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner. People are all to quick to resort to "if you don't believe what I believe you are stupid, deluded, irrational, crazy, insane, mentally unstable" and so on.

craptakular · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:18

I am drinking a jinn and tonic.

I'll get me coat.

Vita · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:19

Link in quote.

Example.

DAnDan · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:22

mrjagga said:
So basically, youve just confirmed what i have said, you cant prove they dont exist and you dont know that they dont exist.

No, I can't. But you can't prove they can, and the burden of proof is on you, as you're the one claiming something contradictory to all the evidence. So really, I don't have to

.

spoffle · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:27

DAnDan said:
No, I can't. But you can't prove they can, and the burden of proof is on you, as you're the one claiming something contradictory to all the evidence. So really, I don't have to .

There is no evidence that you'd accept, so there's nothing to contradict.

See the post above yours. That to some people is evidence/proof, but you'll never accept it as such (neither do I, I don't really believe in that, but that's not the point).

Raikiri · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:34

spoffle said:
There is no evidence that you'd accept, so there's nothing to contradict.

Of course there is.

dowie · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:34

Vita said:
Example.

LOL I thought this sort of nonsense was confined to Evangelical Christians in the US...

mrjagga · 19 Nov 2012 at 21:58

DAnDan said:
No, I can't. But you can't prove they can, and the burden of proof is on you, as you're the one claiming something contradictory to all the evidence. So really, I don't have to .

there is evidence, thousands of people have said they have seen ghosts and jinns. its just up to you not to believe them.

Dave · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:09

Oxy said:
I am drinking a jinn and tonic.

I'll get me coat.

Been done on the first page!

Still funny though

oli collett · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:16

mrjagga said:
there is evidence, thousands of people have said they have seen ghosts and jinns. its just up to you not to believe them.

The plural of anecdote != data

Cheers.

SexyGreyFox · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:17

I was probably around 10 when jinn first came into my life, I was in the bathroom and it came as quite a shock.
For the last 42 years the jinn has been with me constantly and has been a major part of my life but the biggest part of my jinn experiences was during my teens & 20s.
It usually manifests itself in a clear liquid but sometimes white and I'm hoping jinn stays with me until I die.

G-MAN2004 · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:19

SeraphX said:
Pictures please...

Woden · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:26

mrjagga said:
there is evidence, thousands of people have said they have seen ghosts and jinns. its just up to you not to believe them.

Lots of people saying they saw something is not evidence. Unless they all saw the same ghost at the same time.

Millions of "sightings" but no decent pictures? Not to mention most sightings are not sightings but feelings of dread/cold, hearing footsteps etc.

Evidence has to be repeatable and reliable. If I drop a pen 1000 times, it will fall to the floor at the same rate 1000 times. This is evidence that supports the theory of mavity.
Now, if I sit and have a chat with a burning bush 1000 times...

G-MAN2004 said:

Thats a guy PRETENDING to be Jinn! Your a phoney!

dowie · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:54

Dimple said:
I was probably around 10 when jinn first came into my life, I was in the bathroom and it came as quite a shock.
For the last 42 years the jinn has been with me constantly and has been a major part of my life but the biggest part of my jinn experiences was during my teens & 20s.
It usually manifests itself in a clear liquid but sometimes white and I'm hoping jinn stays with me until I die.

Xordium · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:55

Woden said:
Lots of people saying they saw something is not evidence. Unless they all saw the same ghost at the same time.

Guess that makes that YouTube clip true then ...

Reaper 392 · 19 Nov 2012 at 22:56

mrjagga said:
Just a question? how do you guys know there aint such things as jinns, ghosts, evil spirits? you don't. Just because you havent experienced such things doesnt mean they dont exist.

Disproving a negative is virtually impossible. I could claim something equally as believable such as having a supernatural power that lets me transform into a lemon (and back again) and there is no way you could prove otherwise as long as I said that I just didn't want to.

mrjagga said:
there is evidence, thousands of people have said they have seen ghosts and jinns. its just up to you not to believe them.

On top of oli collett's very good point, pretty much every ghost sighting i've ever heard of can be explained by other means. Again Derren Brown has done a program looking into this but it was a few years ago and i cant remember the title. There was a bit in the fear and faith program i posted a page ago about ghosts and why some people think they see them as well (not the placebo effect drug video, the religion one)

NeilF · 19 Nov 2012 at 23:00

mrjagga said:
Just a question? how do you guys know there aint such things as jinns, ghosts, evil spirits? you don't. Just because you havent experienced such things doesnt mean they dont exist.

Fairies? Goblins? Vampires? Werewolves? Pixies? Witches? Wizards? Hobbits? Do you believe in those? Ghosts, 'jinn', evil spirits... It's 12th century hoodoo!

There is not a single piece of evidence to suggest any of the above exist, including your hokum... And there's a very obvious reason for that...