Sunday Trading Laws

[MagicBoy]

Just because a store opens on a Sunday doesn't necessarily mean the staff have to work any longer per week than they currently work - you might however require more of them.

Not strictly true. The store needed more staff on a Sunday, however they didn't work only the six hours the store was open. We still did a full shift and got mandatory staff "training" for the other two hours.

Full time staff on early contracts (ie 1995ish) either got time and a half or the option to skip Sundays. Most of them got managed out of the business very quickly when the owners changed. Strange that.

 

[Amp34]

Opening times are ingrained.
One of the local villages near where I used to live where for ever complaining that they would all go bankrupt due to opening hours. Everyone told them, they need decent parking and open when people can get there.
They finally relented and all agreed to open till 8pm on a Wednesday and council improved parking and their profits have shot up and several closed shops have now got new occupants.

High streets need to come into modern world and except the landscape has changed.
Shop owners need to realize they can't rent shops out at insane prices and reduced rent is more than no rent, more than 12% of shops are empty now.
And shops need to realize they compete with online prices so need to change their plans, they need to look at the huge growing markets, of which their are several and listen to customers.

I was thinking the other day, if shops opened from 8-2, shut for 3 hours and then opened 5-8 they would have far more custom being open before most people go to work, during lunch and as people are going home.

Shops exist to maximise shareholder value, of which one of the main ways of doing so is to serve customers

Well... Close enough.

 

[MagicBoy]

I was thinking the other day, if shops opened from 8-2, shut for 3 hours and then opened 5-8 they would have far more custom being open before most people go to work, during lunch and as people are going home.

Interesting idea. How many store staff work within a few minutes commute of their employer?

 

[Scougar]

Personally I still think Sunday should be a shop free day (perhaps with the exception of things like fuel stations).

 

[PMKeates]

Tomorrow morning I fly to Slovakia. I just finished shaving and then.. ups, used the last bit of cream! I had to fill-up, so I thought I'd see what I could find out there!

I tried two smaller stores, and neither had any. Hopefully I can buy some at the airport.

 

[TheVoice]

I was thinking the other day, if shops opened from 8-2, shut for 3 hours and then opened 5-8 they would have far more custom being open before most people go to work, during lunch and as people are going home.

That'd be terrible though, if you're on a full-time contract you'd have to go home for a few hours and come back, stay at work bored out of your mind, or only do half the day and make up hours another day.

 

[Nexus]

I think the Siesta idea, which is still practised in some countries, only applies to very small shops which are likely family run and thus have employees that perhaps live in the shop or nearby.

The only places in Spain for example that I see it still in practise are small family run shops that sell items to tourists. Half the reason they close for a break is because tourists will return in the evening to browse the shops and eat in the restaurants. Further to that, in Spain, they tend to eat very late at night. Regular shops and Supermarkets of course operate like the rest of Europe.

 

[Rozzy85]

I want them to have the choice.
There is no good reason for the law and yes I would like them open truly 24/7 but that's upto the company not me.

You already know that if the law was lifted most supermarkets would open 24/7 and you'd be bemused if they didn't. Places like Tesco are savoring the day.

There is zero reason for the law and yet again another thread where not one person has put a coherent argument for the law to stay.

There's the worker welfare argument but then just not caring about that makes it invalid. If people have the choice to work the extra day then that's fine but we know it's not as simple as that. For some it'll be mandatory to work Sundays and probably everyday of the week. If they don't like it then tough, there's plenty of people at the bottom of the barrel to pick from.

For me having Sunday simple as a day to rest for those less well of is a good enough reason. I can live knowing that I can't buy a TV at 4AM on a Monday morning.

 

[Glaucus]

No, there isn't a. Worker welfare argument. There's only one industry the law abides by. So are you saying every other industry has terriable worker welfare. So what if its mandatory for some, again no different to every other industry. If you don't want to work Sunday don't.

 

[MagicBoy]

That's utter tripe and you know it. If a potential employee won't agree to working sunday in retail they'll just find someone else who will and you won't get the job.

 

[Glaucus]

That's utter tripe and you know it. If a potential employee won't agree to working sunday in retail they'll just find someone else who will and you won't get the job.

And?
It's not tripe, don't want to work Sunday don't work sunday.
Many many industries ou have to work weekends or you won't get a job, what makes you and retail industry so special you need an. Extremely specific law?
Such laws are th wors on the books. No laws should be so specific and discriminatory.

 

[dowie]

Just because a store opens on a Sunday doesn't necessarily mean the staff have to work any longer per week than they currently work - you might however require more of them.

Not strictly true.

Nope... there isn't necessarily a need to increase the hours worked per week, there might be a desire to, it might happen in some instances but its not necessary. As a worker you've still got the European working time directive to fall back on.

 

[MagicBoy]

I don't work in retail any longer. I have a nice Monday-Friday job with Flexi-time. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the conditions some people work in.

 

[PardonTheWait]

I don't understand this bit about letting retail workers have the day off on Sunday?

We're still open on Sunday, it's just a shorter day. All my staff get two days off a week.

I personally like it that Sunday is how it is, not because I 'get the day off' (I don't) but it's just nice that Sunday's different and a bit more relaxed.

We're still busier on Sundays than during the week by some margin though, but the lie in and early cut is nice.

 

[Glaucus]

I don't work in retail any longer. I have a nice Monday-Friday job with Flexi-time. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the conditions some people work in.

What's that got to do with anything? Everyone will appreciate some aspect of someone else's workin condition.
It doesn't mean there needs to be a law.

I work weekends as it means I get far better pay than I could Mondays to Friday. If I reall wanted to work mondays to Friday there's plenty of over industries I could get a job, but a far reduced pay.

You still have not showen one single reason for the law.

 

[Rroff]

Religious reasons aside I dislike the erroding of the traditional weekend - I like there being something to "break up" the week and a bit more chance to slow down for a day or two - if every day is uniformly the same life gets very boring.

While I think worker welfare, etc. are somewhat tenuous arguements there is some truth to it - At a previous job I used to work a very defined 5 day week and put in the odd 6 day week if it was really needed, then with the relaxing of trading hours, etc. laws it started spilling out a bit more into more common 6 day weeks and not so much because it was needed but because they could get away with it and put the extra workload onto the non-management workers rather than run a more efficent shop at management level. As sunday trading laws, etc. loosened up a bit that was being pushed out to sometimes doing 7 day weeks rather than hire extra staff or put more effort into organising things better.

 

[PardonTheWait]

What's taht got to do with anything? Everyone will appreciate some aspect of someone else's workin condition.
It doesn't mean there needs to be a law.

I work weekends as otg means I get far eer pay than I could Mondays to Friday. If I reall wanted to work moneybags to Friday there's plenty of over industries I could get a job, by a far reduced pay.

You still have not showen one single reason for the law.

You really need to learn to type properly on your iPad, that post hardly makes any sense.

 

[dowie]

There's the worker welfare argument but then just not caring about that makes it invalid. If people have the choice to work the extra day then that's fine but we know it's not as simple as that. For some it'll be mandatory to work Sundays and probably everyday of the week.

It can't actually be mandatory where it would be illegal for it to be mandatory in the first place. People might be encouraged to work longer hours but you've still got EU law to fall back on.

You've got a right to 11 hours rest between shifts, not to have excessive night shifts and to work no more than an average of 48 hours a week. Your worker welfare objection is fundamentally flawed. If someone wants to open 24/7 then they'll have to up their staff levels accordingly and likely would need to provide incentives for late shifts.

 

[MagicBoy]

<gibberish>

Can I get that in English?

I'm still all for a full Sunday shutdown like it was when I was a kid. The weekend should be a time for leisure and time spent with the family/friends. And no, it's not on religious grounds. Would improve quality of life more measurably than being able to buy shiny consumer trinkets at 3am on a Monday.

 

[Rroff]

I assume your just playing devils advocate Glaucus or otherwise don't actually realise where your arguement runs... otherwise you might want to think further ahead to where it leads... a race to the bottom does no one any favors.