Woman saves fox from hounds
- Thread starter Mr Joshua
- Start date
No, they are now in government on the front benches! lol
Yea, they are oblivious to the fact that a fox might get torn to bits!
Stop ignoring what i have already posted.
Hunting is arguably a biological drive also.
You keep saying things like "excessive animal suffering" also when it is probably not the case when comparing killing with hounds to the other methods available.
Soldato
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You are either lying here, or in your previous post.
Hunting with hounds is not for pest control, it's about the most inefficient with time, energy and money form of pest control you can think of - it's entertainment, pure and simple. Like I've already said in this thread, when even 1 of you lot grows some balls and actually admits that it's done for fun instead of hiding behind all this psuedo altruistic cobblers, you might get a little more respect. As for the kill being "quite a solemn occasion", that's just pure fantasy.
Was actually in the news the other day. More talks on re-introducing the Lynx and there may actually be wolves in the highlands in the next decade or so.
Soldato
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Let's not forget it's possible to be a responsible meat eater too. There is nothing hypocritical about someone who eats meat but only if it's sourced from somewhere that meets their standards (free range or organic for example).
I'm a meat eater and an animal lover but I don't find it a hypocritical position. For a start if it weren't for the meat industry animals like cows probably wouldn't exist. I believe there is only one 'wild' herd of cows in the whole of the country, so in a perverse (but ultimately true) way every cow or chicken you eat owes it's existence in the first place to meat eaters and farmers.
Surely even vegetarians must see it's better to have lived a good life before being slaughtered for meat than to have never existed before.
I personally don't eat lamb on ethical grounds as I do believe an animal should be given the chance of growing to adulthood and having a life.
With all that said, I don;t think that contradicts my opposition to fox hunting. I don't think you can say that because I eat meat I shouldn't care about fox hunting as the two are quite different. Farmers are creating life that wouldn't otherwise exist with fuels other lifeforms, fox hunters are reducing a species numbers for 'sport'.
You are also ignoring the point that as a species we should be attempting to move away from social attitudes which are indifferent to the act of killing for amusement.
Think of it like this,
Theoretically if I invented a device which stopped Foxes from killing any farmers animals (some kind of device which emits a high frequency sound within the hearing spectrum of Foxes which deterred them from coming near the farms, similar to the anti-teenager social devices in the UK atm in some towns) - the end result being that farmers didn't lose any animals any-more to foxes (meaning no reason existed to hunt them).
(Edit - found out these devices already exist, the question being why are they not being used - will do some digging to find out the reasoning why)
Would the Fox hunters still want to hunt them?, as the above would stop the need for trapping/poisoning.
I think we both know what the answer would be.
An interesting & different point of view to mine.
Personally, I do feel a little hypocritical - but that's an internal thing, it doesn't invalidate my view on fox hunting (as highlighting hypocrisy in an argument is nothing more than an ad-hominem due to the other sides inability to attack the augment).
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Please point out where i am lying? I have explained where the enjoyment comes from. I take it you have hunted then?
Biologically it makes sense to derive pleasure from hunting as a survival mechanism(just like sex )
I obviously see the human aspect of how it is different killing for fun as to killing for meat (but like said, you can't use the argument that we need meat)
Bottom line I feel is that people are against fox hunting with hounds as the majority don'tneed it , if for example it was a mechanism for putting meat on the table (it could easily be) more people would agree.. Go further, if it was the only way to obtain meat it would not be frowned on.
When human wants (not even needs) come in to it people are much more accepting of things they would otherwise think disgusting.
Regardless, I've said it before, we are thinking of it as a human 'oh xyz are terrible morally' if you were the animal I highly doubt you would care if you were being killed for food or sport. You would be much more interested in how you would go. And that for me is what matters. (I don't judge people on their 'enjoyment' attributes)
So for me it's not wrong to enjoy it, it's just just not nice, but again Iwould be hhypocritical to be against it, although I do appreciate the argument just because we test on animals doesn't mean we should do this
I obviously see the human aspect of how it is different killing for fun as to killing for meat (but like said, you can't use the argument that we need meat)
Bottom line I feel is that people are against fox hunting with hounds as the majority don'tneed it , if for example it was a mechanism for putting meat on the table (it could easily be) more people would agree.. Go further, if it was the only way to obtain meat it would not be frowned on.
When human wants (not even needs) come in to it people are much more accepting of things they would otherwise think disgusting.
Regardless, I've said it before, we are thinking of it as a human 'oh xyz are terrible morally' if you were the animal I highly doubt you would care if you were being killed for food or sport. You would be much more interested in how you would go. And that for me is what matters. (I don't judge people on their 'enjoyment' attributes)
So for me it's not wrong to enjoy it, it's just just not nice, but again Iwould be hhypocritical to be against it, although I do appreciate the argument just because we test on animals doesn't mean we should do this
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What a load of codswallop. Where do you hunt? Online?
I really do not understand what you are trying to get across....
The land owners in the area give permission before hand.
A date is organised for the hunt.
The hunt takes place on said date.
What is "codswallop" about that?
If you try to apply that argument to things like halal and kosher meat though it falls down because religion trumps all apparently.
I would agree with you if you were consistent across the board when it comes to animal cruelty.
There are much bigger issues concerning animal cruelty out there than fox hunting, and those people who want to tackle fox hunting first just come across as being toff haters and hypocrites.
What exactly? You're the one posting pointless drivel, without an explanation.
No, they do not. Sometimes they might, but it is not a given. You say that you have hunted before, would you care to tell everyone here how long you spend out on a single hunt? Also, how much ground do you cover, and how do you ensure that the trail remains on the land of a single owner?
Thanks.
I equally disagree with meat preparation practices which don't abide by our animal welfare rules & I don't believe religion should get a free pass on that either.
While I agree the anti-fox hunting group may have a number of class warfare "bandwagoners" who don't really care about animals, most of the people who care enough about the issue to post on a forum are likely to hold similar views about all forms of animal cruelty.
I also agree that many farming methods are responsible for animal suffering on a much greater scale, but as mentioned earlier - progress is a gradual thing, revulsion at hunting is simple the first stage our empathic evolution (regarding our relationship between ourselves & other species).
Soldato
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1 minute it's enjoyment and the next minute it's solemn? It sounds like your arguments change from moment to moment.
I have been to the Essex & Suffolk Hunt many times with clients and business associates, but nice attempt at setting up and argument from authority.