This is a possibility. I don't think they will leave the EU though, but these items are what will be aimed for.
David Cameron's speech on Europe
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This is a possibility. I don't think they will leave the EU though, but these items are what will be aimed for.
Also I have a big query, if the UK does leave the EU and everything goes to plan as UK's stupid government is doing. Will British citizens still have the right to travel freely around Europe? (Without a VISA - or I think it is without a VISA).
Soldato
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Ireland would probably be the only country that free travel would be allowed to. But I'd imagine the eventual UK position would be similar to that of Norway's relationship to the EU, with the UK becoming an EFTA member.
Nate
The UK is a parliamentary democracy, we don’t do government by referendum or proportional representation, that is for chaotic foreign governments. What is going on here is brinkmanship with public opinion, lets be very clear, there will not be a referendum and anyone who thinks this, is being proverbially led down the garden path.
Infinitely more serious is the appalling damage that David Cameron is inflicting on this country and future generations all in order to hold on to power. He is an egoist intent on out manoeuvring dissident factions in his own party and manipulating public opinion to be in the running come the next general election.
If he had any honour he would call a general election now because he was not elected to demolish Britain’s relationship with Europe and plunge the UK into ever deepening spiral of debt, he was elected as a protest to Gordon Brown’s feeble leadership with the help of a flaccid liberal party.
Gordon Brown may be a failed leader but he is right in saying that the only way forward following the global banking crises is in global collaboration.
World leaders are a long way from even beginning on such a collaboration and with respect to Britain’s relationship with Europe this government is moving in the opposite direction, they are torpedoing the European construct.
A general election would settle the momentous issues and monstrous spin surrounding our relationship with Europe but of course the conservatives don’t have the courage to call a general election.
Infinitely more serious is the appalling damage that David Cameron is inflicting on this country and future generations all in order to hold on to power. He is an egoist intent on out manoeuvring dissident factions in his own party and manipulating public opinion to be in the running come the next general election.
If he had any honour he would call a general election now because he was not elected to demolish Britain’s relationship with Europe and plunge the UK into ever deepening spiral of debt, he was elected as a protest to Gordon Brown’s feeble leadership with the help of a flaccid liberal party.
Gordon Brown may be a failed leader but he is right in saying that the only way forward following the global banking crises is in global collaboration.
World leaders are a long way from even beginning on such a collaboration and with respect to Britain’s relationship with Europe this government is moving in the opposite direction, they are torpedoing the European construct.
A general election would settle the momentous issues and monstrous spin surrounding our relationship with Europe but of course the conservatives don’t have the courage to call a general election.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Exactly. The theory is that we elect those with a better understanding to make these decisions on our behalf. We are not qualified in European Economics and therefore asking us a question on something as complicated as our countries membership of the EU is entirely inappropriate.
USAs debt is ten fold the GDP lol, smae with most western countries. I think what you meant was that they borrow more money than they currently generate through tax, this is called a deficit and again, most western countries have a deficit including the UK. As it stands our debt is increasing not decreasing because we borrow more money than we make, then we borrow more to cover that. It's like continually getting new credit cards to pay the old credit cards back. And yet people cry when there is cut-backs and in the same sentence moan that there isn't enough public spending.
There's just a complete lack of education among the general population about most serious and important topics. The fact the government (which is supposed to work for good of the people) would hand an issue as serious as the EU membership to every man and his dog is quite frankly disturbing. The whole point of electing representatives to sit in the Houses of Parliament is because we trust (and pay) them to educate themselves about the big issues and take a stance based on their findings and how those findings relate to the needs of his constituents. Having a referendum is almost a cop-out for the MPs it takes away any blame of repercussions as it will be us, the ill-informed, who made the decision.
I agree with Margaret Thatcher's view on Europe. It is better UK being in EU.
Good point, but if UK stays in the EU there's no need.
Mhmmm.. One doesn't get to elect ones head of state. That would be too demanding. Or prime minister (I see your hand in the air, let me ask you this - which one of you morons voted for Gordy Brown as a leader, oh, that's right, he was unelected leader...). Or cabinet ministers. Or the upper house of Parliament (hell, some of them Lord titles are even inherited). But proud of our example of parliamentary democracy we all shall be.
Buz said:
[TW]Fox;23620441 said:
Now that's not quite true. Not unless the Scottish Government is currently considered non-UK and a "chaotic foreign government".
I don't buy into the infallible and superior political class argument , where issues effect peoples lives to the extent discussed then it is only democratic that they should have a say. Your belief, rightly or wrongly, about the knuckle dragging majority does not and will not negate hundreds of years of sociopolitical progress.
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Singapore seems to be a well run and extremely efficient benevolent dictatorship; just don't publicly attack the govt too loudly or they'll sue you to bankruptcy.
ignoring the whole whats better in or out as tbh no one actually knows.
what i find annoying is how certain part's of the business world and political world are crying that it create's uncertainty over the future of the uk, well this is true what did we have before this ? a 20 year dance over successive gov's possibly offering a referendum at some point. at least now we have a set date (or near enough) of how things could pan out if the torries get back in.
im sure many on here will wave there arms (and some have done) about how its going to cause years of people not wanting to invest, but compared to what could have been a very slow death of the 3 main partys and the rise of ukip over the next 20 years maybe its the better of the two options as people at least know now whats happening rather than slowly watching ukip gain in strength and possible get seats and so on.
as for labour calling cameron for offering it, its nice to know they still dont give a monkeys about what the uk public want since leaving office, you'd have thought the penny would have dropped by now that you have to talk and respect what the public want a bit more rather than just shout loudly at what you dont want and expect us all to agree. im not saying the torries are much better but this pr play by cameron for a in out referendum is at least something thats been called for since the 90's.
and before i get told how its all wrong and its just a pr stunt, maybe everyone should remember thats all politic's is unfortunately. a giant game of pr and trying to keep the general public on your side.
what i find annoying is how certain part's of the business world and political world are crying that it create's uncertainty over the future of the uk, well this is true what did we have before this ? a 20 year dance over successive gov's possibly offering a referendum at some point. at least now we have a set date (or near enough) of how things could pan out if the torries get back in.
im sure many on here will wave there arms (and some have done) about how its going to cause years of people not wanting to invest, but compared to what could have been a very slow death of the 3 main partys and the rise of ukip over the next 20 years maybe its the better of the two options as people at least know now whats happening rather than slowly watching ukip gain in strength and possible get seats and so on.
as for labour calling cameron for offering it, its nice to know they still dont give a monkeys about what the uk public want since leaving office, you'd have thought the penny would have dropped by now that you have to talk and respect what the public want a bit more rather than just shout loudly at what you dont want and expect us all to agree. im not saying the torries are much better but this pr play by cameron for a in out referendum is at least something thats been called for since the 90's.
and before i get told how its all wrong and its just a pr stunt, maybe everyone should remember thats all politic's is unfortunately. a giant game of pr and trying to keep the general public on your side.
This is sadly true but I still think it gives us a much chance of letting us lot decide.
Soldato
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You really think that? The average joe will just see it as a good thing.
It is now almost 40 years since the last referendum on Europe. I think that it is time to poll the population (or at least those motivated to get out of bed for it). Personally I am against referenda as a general rule but as we have timetabled one at a reasonable distance in time we should accept and work towards making the most of it.
Government for and on behalf of the people is fair enough. We do not want to be bothered by the minutiae of government, lawmaking, economics on a daily basis.
As has been said many politicians have as little grasp of the fine points of the EU as most of the population and because of the power they have as 1 in 600 rather than 1 in 40m or so, may have a disproportionate view based on individual prejudice one way or another.
So occasionally we should query a larger sample.
I hope that the vote is yes to stay in, but I would accept the vote either way. A result should give credibility to Britains position and reduce the scepticism of both wings of opinion.
Government for and on behalf of the people is fair enough. We do not want to be bothered by the minutiae of government, lawmaking, economics on a daily basis.
As has been said many politicians have as little grasp of the fine points of the EU as most of the population and because of the power they have as 1 in 600 rather than 1 in 40m or so, may have a disproportionate view based on individual prejudice one way or another.
So occasionally we should query a larger sample.
I hope that the vote is yes to stay in, but I would accept the vote either way. A result should give credibility to Britains position and reduce the scepticism of both wings of opinion.