Female Students Facing Sexual Harassment And Groping In University Lad Culture, Says NUS

[dowie]

In my opinion and id guess in society Rape does in 99% of cases, tend to be Men >Women. Your female friend is rare and yes this probably reflects the word becoming more commonly used as a casual metaphor.

I think we just gonna have to agree language changes and evolves and the older generation tends to think some words are more sacred than others..

I'd agree that languages change... its just the idea that some words are sacred that I find strange.

(think I should point out as its seems to have been a theme through this thread that rape is linked to sexism and/or rape involves a female victim - almost 10% of rape convictions in the US are male victims and its generally thought to be very under reported - particularly in prisons. Its not as uncommon as people would assume.)

 

[Burnsy2023]

I didn't feel I'd have to go into such silly detail to make the point, but here we go again being literal to the point of stupidity. Stop being a pseudo intelligent forum ***** and argue the points not the semantics.

Stop the personal attacks, I don't want to have to suspend you.

 

[aln]

I don't see where I said it did not have an informal usage however....and funnily enough the discussion about meaning is also known by the word semantics, as in the study of meaning. Ironic don't you think.

Again with missing the point because you're trying to be wide. No, I don't really find it ironic given the context of what I was saying. The only important thing is that you know what I meant and I'm fairly sure you do.

And beating someone badly at a game isn't the point, it is the association attributed to it, and the use of the word Rape has that association, again I did not say it had sexual undertones, only that the word Rape when used in such a way has associations with the use of force by violence (as in seizure, or beating someone if you prefer).

There is no such association. You want there to be because thats your position but beating someone in the case of winning really badly is not the same as beating someone physically. I already stated the meaning comes directly from expressing how humiliating the defeat and can happily be appropriated in a game in a games which mechanics do not include any form of killing or violence.

To be clear I do not hold an opinion on whether it is acceptable or not, only showing to associations from which it is derived and why some people will see the use of the word Rape in such a context as unsuitable.

You're wrong. I'm questioning whether you're even a gamer now not just whether you were one when this type of stuff was new.

There is no need to resort to insults simply because you feel I am disagreeing with you.

There is no need for you to prattle on despite the fact I've already explained what the word actually means. Besides it was hardly an insult, only a request you stop playing games with your debates and actually focus on whats important.

By the way I get it, you want to debate what the word means in the context that its used. I disagree with you. We don't need to go over it again.

Stop the personal attacks, I don't want to have to suspend you.

It wasn't a personal attack. I didn't call him stupid and I wouldn't have told him to stop playing daft if I was attempting to actually call him stupid, I'd have just done it. But point taking either way, you don't like that kinda talk.

 

[Burnsy2023]

It wasn't a personal attack. I didn't call him stupid and I wouldn't have told him to stop playing daft if I was attempting to actually call him stupid, I'd have just done it. But point taking either way, you don't like that kinda talk.

It was more referring to this:

Stop being a pseudo intelligent forum *****

But glad you took the hint

 

[Castiel]

Again with missing the point because you're trying to be clever. No, I don't really find it ironic given the context of what I was saying.

I'm not missing the point. I understand what you are saying perfectly.

There is no such association. You want there to be because thats your position but beating someone in the case of winning really badly is not the same as beating someone physically. I already stated the meaning comes directly from expressing how humiliating the defeat and can happily be appropriated in a game in a games which mechanics do not include any form of killing or violence.

I did not say it was the same...you misunderstand me. I said there is an association to the use of the word. The meaning does derive from the the word Rape in the context in which it is most commonly applied. This is why it is used, because part of that association is from the humiliation and the act of beating. It has nothing to do with the mechanics or nature of the game you may be playing, but the association with beating your opponent.

You disagree, so be it. It's not necessary to get belligerant.

You're wrong. I'm questioning whether you're even a gamer now not just whether you were one when this type of stuff was new.

I do not see what that has to do with anything. Being a gamer or not has little to do with where the word Rape is derived from. Unless this is some kind of denigration of me in some way.

There is no need for you to prattle on despite the fact I've already explained what the word actually means. Besides it was hardly an insult, only a request you stop playing games with your debates and actually focus on whats important.

I am focusing on what is important, it was a subject that Burnsy and others raised and I offered some opinion on....it might not suit yours and you might not agree, but it is relevant.

 

[Robosapien]

I think rape victims should start using the word in their rap songs, tbqfh.

 

[Angilion]

The problem is that rape is a serious thing and by using it in a gaming context you are trivialising the word. That is simply inappropriate.

You're now arguing that murder is not a serious thing. You probably didn't mean to do that, but you've left yourself without any other position. If you had objected to the use of the word "kill" in the same context, you could have been consistent, but you didn't. Not just by omission, since it was brought up and you replied.

I don't approve of targetting all people of one sex because of the actions of some people who happen to be of that sex, so I think you're on the wrong track with that too.

Would you, for example, argue that "blacks" won't know that stealing and murdering are wrong unless they're carefully taught that from childhood? There are people who believe that "blacks" are naturally thieves and murderers and therefore will steal and murder unless trained not to do so. You've made the same line of argument about men and rape, so you can't reasonably claim that my question is offensive - you've already shown you think that way and I'm just querying some details.

 

[aln]

It was more referring to this:

But glad you took the hint

That wasn't actually the end of that sentence to be fair. Even with what was said there the connotations of the usage of "stop" is suggesting he can if he wants to, so isn't actually me calling him fake intelligent, just me suggesting that he's playing dumb rather than actually is.

I still take the point, I just want to explain that I don't think it was meant exactly in the way you might have read it.

 

[Robosapien]

Castiel is wayyyyyyy better than aln.

 

[Castiel]

If you look at the definition of strange - is it difficult to understand or explain? No.

I refer you to the point about you arguing ad nauseam. Just let it go... don't stress .

I'm not stressing, only clarifying, yet you don't wish to accept that.

strange also means unusual, out of the ordinary or striking....and it was in this context in which it was used.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/strange

 

[aln]

I said there is an association to the use of the word. The meaning does derive from the the word Rape in the context in which it is most commonly applied. This is why it is used, because part of that association is from the humiliation and the act of beating. It has nothing to do with the mechanics or nature of the game you may be playing, but the association with beating your opponent.

For the record you've just moved the goal posts from force & violence to humiliation. Well done there.

I do not see what that has to do with anything. Being a gamer or not has little to do with where the word Rape is derived from. Unless this is some kind of denigration of me in some way.

Understanding the context of the word does matter. You've just changed that context without acknowledging it. This is the sort of place my less than ideal tone stems from.

I am focusing on what is important, it was a subject that Burnsy and others raised and I offered some opinion on....it might not suit yours and you might not agree, but it is relevant.

From my point of view Burnsy actually made a different point from you, one that I disagree with for different reasons which I and many others already raised.

 

[grimm]

I think that anyone trying to argue that people using the word "rape" in a social or gaming context are showing their age in this thread. It has gradually become a socially acceptable word to use amongst younger people and has nothing to do with the actual underlying meaning of the word. It just means the same thing as "thrashing" someone at a game or sport. Nobody using the word in this context is actually more likely to go out and rape someone, or encourage someone else who hears it to rape someone. This is because the word now has a dual meaning.

People at work say to me "I'm just going to steal your pen for a minute", it doesn't mean that they are then more likely to go around stealing people's Iphones or encouraging other people in the workplace to do so.

If people are going to commit crimes, using a word socially isn't going to make it any more or less likely, they are going to do it regardless if they have it within them to do so.

 

[Burnsy2023]

You're now arguing that murder is not a serious thing. You probably didn't mean to do that, but you've left yourself without any other position. If you had objected to the use of the word "kill" in the same context, you could have been consistent, but you didn't. Not just by omission, since it was brought up and you replied.

Perhaps there is an argument that using the word murder in other contexts is not appropriate either, but that's not what I'm trying to argue.

Would you, for example, argue that "blacks" won't know that stealing and murdering are wrong unless they're carefully taught that from childhood? There are people who believe that "blacks" are naturally thieves and murderers and therefore will steal and murder unless trained not to do so.

Let me stop you right there. This is not about being "naturally" inclined to do anything, this is about societal culture allowing certain prejudices to be relatively mainstream. Women to a large degree are objectified and it's important for men to know that this isn't ok.

 

[Efour]

wheres magnolia and his weird **** about Ellen and rape fantasy of tom cruise

 

[Angilion]

I'm not stressing, only clarifying, yet you don't wish to accept that.

strange also means unusual, out of the ordinary or striking....and it was in this context in which it was used.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/strange

This offshoot between the two of you has popped up a question in my head which you might be able to answer, since you're a linguist.

Are there any languages in which words have only one meaning each? I doubt it, but I'm not certain and I'm curious enough to ask. As a follow-up question - is English unusual in the extent to which words can have multiple meanings?

 

[aln]

Perhaps there is an argument that using the word murder in other contexts is not appropriate either, but that's not what I'm trying to argue.

While thats not really what you're trying to argue, others are trying to suggest you aren't being consistent in your views, which if you are able to accept, should allow you the ability to do a little bit of self reflection on the issue you are arguing.

 

[Burnsy2023]

It has gradually become a socially acceptable word to use amongst younger people and has nothing to do with the actual underlying meaning of the word.

That is probably a good summary of my problem. It is socially acceptable for a specific culture (that's not really limited to age), and IMO it shouldn't be. Certain words should not be reclaimed for different contexts due to the mavity of the word. That said, in a gaming context you are not really using it any differently. When you "rape" someone in a game, what does it mean at a very base level? It means you're humalitating someone, it means that you're showing your superiority and power and that they're submissive. You may not quite think of it in those terms, but if you're killing someone in black ops and teabagging them, that's exactly what you're doing and that's similar to actual rape.

 

[aln]

That is probably a good summary of my problem. It is socially acceptable for a specific culture (that's not really limited to age), and IMO it shouldn't be. Certain words should not be reclaimed for different contexts due to the mavity of the word. That said, in a gaming context you are not really using it any differently. When you "rape" someone in a game, what does it mean at a very base level? It means you're humalitating someone, it means that you're showing your superiority and power and that they're submissive. You may not quite think of it in those terms, but if you're killing someone in black ops and teabagging them, that's exactly what you're doing and that's no different to actual rape.

Did you actually just say that? I think you're the one belittling rape there pal.

 

[Castiel]

For the record you've just moved the goal posts from force & violence to humiliation. Well done there.

I haven't as it relates to the widely accepted definition of Rape and how it is associated.

Understanding the context of the word does matter. You've just changed that context without acknowledging it. This is the sort of place my less than ideal tone stems from.

Actually I haven't, the association remains...what I have tried to do is clarify it more simply for you, obviously to no avail. At its most simplistic it is about associating a word with serious negative connotations with a positive one...so using the word Rape in a positive way, meaning to win, or by trivialising it in the negative by associating it with doing badly in something. The association with the act of Rape remains however and this is the point I was trying to make. Whether I am a gamer or not is unimportant, as it is the use that is under discussion, not the specific pastime you may be competing in. It is not only gamers that use the word in such a way.

You may not agree, but this isn't about me personally only a different perspective and why people may hold that perspective.

From my point of view Burnsy actually made a different point from you, one that I disagree with for different reasons which I and many others already raised.

Burnsy made the point that many do, that using the word Rape so casually trivialises it unnecessarily. I was adding some context to why this may be the case.

 

[Burnsy2023]

While thats not really what you're trying to argue, others are trying to suggest you aren't being consistent in your views, which if you are able to accept, should allow you the ability to do a little bit of self reflection on the issue you are arguing.

You do realise what you doing is a logical fallacy right?