Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

TrixiBuG · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:41

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23230419

What the hell?!?!

The EU Court of Human rights have now deemed that whole life sentences are a breach of human rights for prisoners and there has to be a possibility of release and a review of the sentence carried out so that the convicted have a 'ray of hope' or some such...

Jeremy Bamber is one of these convicted criminals which are on a whole life tariffs. He killed 5 people in the White House Farm murders (link)

Why does this guy even think that he should have a hope of being released after what he has done??

Human rights gone mad again? I think so...what does GD think?

Should convicted murders/ criminals have the right to a 'hope' of release when they are serving whole life sentences and been told that they will live out their days in prison?

Freakbro · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:43

TrixiBuG said:
Why does this guy even think that he should have a hope of being released after what he has done??

Because a life term without the possibility of parole precludes any notion of rehabilitation.

This isn't saying they can't be locked up for their entire lives, it just means they need periodic assessment to see if rehabilitation has worked and they are safe to release into society again.

I don't see the problem?

rotters · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:44

No ray of hope for the victims....so no ray of hope for the perpetrator. Simple really.

dirtychinchilla · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:45

I think that they should be thankful that we live in a civilised enough country (just about) that he's been allowed to continue his life, and perhaps he should have considered the consequences of his actions before murdering his family.

I'm not convinced by whole life tariffs, however, as the point of prison is not vengeance, it's rehabilitation. I assume this is why there is an issue with his human rights being at stake. They have precluded any opportunity he has to rehabilitate himself, after all, what's the point if you've no chance of ever being released.

TrixiBuG · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:47

Freakbro said:
Because a life term without the possibility of parole precludes any notion of rehabilitation.

This isn't saying they can't be locked up for their entire lives, it just means they need periodic assessment to see if rehabilitation has worked and they are safe to release into society again.

I don't see the problem?

But he will never need rehabilitation cause he will never be released. According to his wiki page:

He was sentenced to five life terms, and was told by the Home Secretary in 1994 that he would never be released

link

This guy doesn't apply for rehab, he will die in prison, end of

Jono8 · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:47

They threw away their human rights when they intentionally took another persons life in my opinion.

We should introduce human rights AND responsibilities. Don't uphold your human responsibilities (i.e. kill and/or rape people)? Then you don't get your human rights.

Freakbro · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:49

TrixiBuG said:
But he will never need rehabilitation cause he will never be released. According to his wiki page:

link

This guy doesn't apply for rehab, he will die in prison, end of

But that is the part that is under question, that he was told he would not be released under any circumstances, ie: precluding any hope of rehabilitation, no?

koolpc · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:49

Bring back hard labor for prisoners. Whatever the sentence. Make it a reality that prison means hardships not TV and luxury!

Human rights has gone beyond!

How can a multiple murderer be rehabilitated for goodness sake!!

Jono8 · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:51

koolpc said:
Bring back hard labor for prisoners. Whatever the sentence. Make it a reality that prison means hardships not TV and luxury!

Human rights has gone beyond!

How can a multiple murderer be rehabilitated for goodness sake!!

Indeed. I still don't see why prisoners are not used to manufacture useful things and help our economy? Or get them to fix the roads, build stuff e.t.c.

dirtychinchilla · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:52

Jono8 said:
They threw away their human rights when they intentionally took another persons life in my opinion.

We should introduce human rights AND responsibilities. Don't uphold your human responsibilities (i.e. kill and/or rape people)? Then you don't get your human rights.

Oh come off it, this is just ridiculous. You do not lose your humanity ever. No one can ever take it away from you. It's perfectly human to commit crimes, it's just not morally acceptable and appeals to a minority of people. To suggest such a thing is just dense.

Furthermore, you've no idea what his mental state was at the time of the murders. The fact that he blames it on his sister, however, is odd.

Freakbro · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:53

koolpc said:
Bring back hard labor for prisoners. Whatever the sentence. Make it a reality that prison means hardships not TV and luxury!

I take it you have never been locked up in a high security prison then?

How can a multiple murderer be rehabilitated for goodness sake!!

Can you cite any evidence that says they can't?

Jono8 said:
Indeed. I still don't see why prisoners are not used to manufacture useful things and help our economy? Or get them to fix the roads, build stuff e.t.c.

What, putting more people out of work that currently 'build stuff' already?

wnb · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:55

I think he should rot in prison for the rest of his life. In-fact Prison is too good for him, we should send people like this to their own personal hell.

How could he kill those two young boys.

dirtychinchilla · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:55

Freakbro said:
Can you cite any evidence that says they can't?

Lack of evidence is not evidence. I'm convinced murders can be rehabilitated though, particularly if their crime was one of passion and was not premeditated. We've all snapped on occasion; some people just react a lot worse than others.

Jono8 · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:55

dirtychinchilla said:
Oh come off it, this is just ridiculous. You do not lose your humanity ever. No one can ever take it away from you. It's perfectly human to commit crimes, it's just not morally acceptable and appeals to a minority of people. To suggest such a thing is just dense.

Furthermore, you've no idea what his mental state was at the time of the murders. The fact that he blames it on his sister, however, is odd.

So you agree with what is being proposed and agree with the European Court of Human rights in that whole life tariffs are a breach of human rights?

dirtychinchilla · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:56

Jono8 said:
So you agree with what is being proposed and agree with the European Court of Human rights in that whole life tariffs are a breach of human rights?

Yes. I've told you why above.

Freakbro · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:57

Jono8 said:
So you agree with what is being proposed and agree with the European Court of Human rights in that whole life tariffs are a breach of human rights?

If you actually read past the headline and understand what is being said, then yes, I agree with them.

TrixiBuG · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:57

Freakbro said:
Can you cite any evidence that says they can't?

The thing is why should he? Why should have have the right to go back into society and live a normal life? Its not like it was an accident that killed his family...he killed 5 people. Murder. Cant get much worse that that for an ordinary person

Jono8 · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:58

Freakbro said:
If you actually read past the headline and understand what is being said, then yes, I agree with them.

I read the whole article thanks, and i think it is ridiculous.

AJK · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:59

Jono8 said:
They threw away their human rights when they intentionally took another persons life in my opinion.

We should introduce human rights AND responsibilities. Don't uphold your human responsibilities (i.e. kill and/or rape people)? Then you don't get your human rights.

Totally agree with this.

Castiel · 9 Jul 2013 at 10:59

I'm not sure about this, on the one hand the idea that rehabilitation is inherent in the penal system is something I support, yet I also think the State Justice system should have the option to impose full-life sentences in certain circumstances.

Each case really needs to made on an individual basis rather than having blanket rules imposed by the ECHR.