Securing a graduate job is just ridiculous

[Judgeneo]

[bragging] Well I literally just got my third offer a few minutes ago. [/bragging]

Surely you guys must be doing something wrong to have such trouble, have you got opinions from your university careers offices and/or good recruiters?

 

[AJK]

I know someone at that university who studied that course and is now paying almost 10 grand of daddy's wealth to pursue a masters at said uni/course. Absolutely ridiculous!

What's the next career step after that?!

 

[supergt]

Out of curiosity what sort of jobs are you applying for Judgeneo and where? Congrats.

I am in the process of emailing boutique banks for internships (would do it unpaid) however some internships actually ask for previous experience as I said in my OP. Which just doesn't make sense.

 

[D.P.]

Securing a job is tough enough in the current climate. Unfortunately experience trumps a degree at the moment.

I would probably say the opposite, we have just hired 5 fresh graduates.

Fresh minds that a eager to learn and work hard, adaptable, don't come with preconceived ideas or act like they own the place on day 1 and demand twice the salary just because they have prior experience in a similar but actually unrelated field.

 

[manic111]

[bragging] Well I literally just got my third offer a few minutes ago. [/bragging]

Surely you guys must be doing something wrong to have such trouble, have you got opinions from your university careers offices and/or good recruiters?

It depends hugely on what you're doing, what your degree is in, etc.

There are certain degrees (particularly IT based ones I've been told, but don't flame me if that's not true!) where the market is booming and anyone with a decent degree can get a job.

On the other hand, from my own experiences applying to law firms, there are currently more people coming out of law based degrees and the GDL than there are trainee roles available, not counting people like me who applied prior to converting to law. If there are twice as many applicants as there are jobs, there will be a lot of disappointed people.

 

[supergt]

What's the next career step after that?!

Not sure, deleted her on facebook after she posted that status.

 

[scorza]

It's quite widely accepted now - certainly in the professional circles I frequent - that:

A)Service Delivery Management is something you get to after 5-7-10 years of previous experience - variable based on exposure and competence.

B)The best SDMs started out on Service Desks, and then work their way up through other functions. So they actually understand what the hell is going on due to experience. The theory only takes you so far.

Whilst I'm also PRINCE2 Practitioner level, I wouldn't even consider being a Project Manager. Anyone fresh off the Uni boat who thinks they could do it without earning their stripes doing some PSO/Work package Mgmt first is having a laugh..... or they are 'Project Managers' in nothing other than job title.

Reality is, University isn't a guarantee of anything. When there is such huge choice, why would you consider anything other than the best you can get with as much experience as possible. For many roles, doing University at a later date to aid career progression is a far better path.

Edit - BCS seem to agree with me on the SDM bit - http://certifications.bcs.org/upload/pdf/service-mgt-careerpath-full.pdf

I didn't say that they get those jobs, just that's what they want to do/think they'll be doing. It causes problems once they enter the real world and have to do entry level jobs like developing software, which in some cases they can't do so get frustrated. I once had a grad tell me with a straight face that he wanted to be a Project Manager so he could get other people to do all his work for him.

Tbh I blame the recruitment people the most, I know when I was a grad I applied for all sorts and told the interviewers what I thought they wanted to hear. For a long time now the message going out has been we don't want developers - we have Indian colleagues who'll do that. We're recruiting grads to do the higher value work like PM/SDM/Technical Authority. The reality, at least where I am, is quite different.

 

[tom_e]

What's the next career step after that?!

Professional shelf stacker

 

[supergt]

It depends hugely on what you're doing, what your degree is in, etc.

There are certain degrees (particularly IT based ones I've been told, but don't flame me if that's not true!) where the market is booming and anyone with a decent degree can get a job.

On the other hand, from my own experiences applying to law firms, there are currently more people coming out of law based degrees and the GDL than there are trainee roles available, not counting people like me who applied prior to converting to law. If there are twice as many applicants as there are jobs, there will be a lot of disappointed people.

Indeed I have been told that if I knew a programming language then it would increase my chances hugely of obtaining the roles I wish to have!

 

[D.P.]

Here I am to rant. Just completed an Economics degree and eager to get started on my career. I have applied to around 30 or so financial based or something similar that may be of interest to me, and I am already getting sick of it.

Some of the questions and process is just ridiculous. Now I know due to demand they are able to be more picky but having phone interviews, tests, further interviews all before receiving a job and not to mention the questions that are ask I just feel are idiotic. There are even internships that require previous internships?!

It's incredibly annoying that if you are able to just bull****e the behavioural questions such as a time you've been an incredibly life altering team player/saved the planet from extinction, then you would probably be picked over someone not as much as a self bragger who could do the job better.

I also find it incredible how they are so nit picky about everything about you and yet, I have already had 2 phone interviews that have been late (over an hour) after the arranged date and one who just completely forgot.

Finally here is a message I received from one potential employer:

"Joshua,
> Thx for sending your details in. We would be interested in having a call when free.
> Many tx"

And: "Sure. Let’s do tmrw at 4pm"


So they expect me to have excellent attention to detail and excellent communication skills, think of pre-rehearsed made up answers of times when I have been the best of everything in my incredible 21 years of experienced living, and go through 5 different stages and yet they don't have the decency to even email properly?

Sums it just about up really.

(sorry for rant)

Just out of interest, what & where did you study and what grade did you get?

Graduate schemes are very picky on institution and grade. I applied (and received offers) from several that elusively only looked at the top 10 Russell group and students with first class degrees in hard sciences. E.g., you want to work in economics at a top firm, best bet is to have a 2.1 or 1st in maths form Cambridge (or a double honors maths + econ).

 

[manic111]

Just out of interest, what & where did you study and what grade did you get?

Graduate schemes are very picky on institution and grade. I applied (and received offers) from several that elusively only looked at the top 10 Russell group and students with first class degrees in hard sciences. E.g., you want to work in economics at a top firm, best bet is to have a 2.1 or 1st in maths form Cambridge (or a double honors maths + econ).

Yet you can't spell "exclusively"? Or were they just being very sly about it?

 

[D.P.]

Why don't you actually apply for real jobs?

Thats what I got after uni, none of this "I must only apply for a graduate job" crap from me.

Indeed, way too many people think they can only apply for graduate roles when better positions are freely available to them and likely pay higher.

 

[supergt]

That is why I have focused away from graduate schemes. I did not go to a top 10 (or even 20) University. I studied Economics, got the 2:1 in that with a couple of first classes in certain modules. I am not aiming for a top firm as I know how competitive they are and would probably prefer a lesser known company that I could progress through. I have actually had interviews for those seeking top 10 Uni graduates however I believe it was due to my month work experiences at Barclays Capital and Citigroup in 2006, 2008 and 2011(not internships).

 

[D.P.]

Yet you can't spell "exclusively"? Or were they just being very sly about it?

Spell, or type in a hurry on an ipad? They are not the same thing!

 

[supergt]

Indeed, way too many people think they can only apply for graduate roles when better positions are freely available to them and likely pay higher.

Very true. However based on my searches a lot require previous experience. It is also quite hard to think of roles to search that don't contain graduate. My search history consists of "grad, graduate, intern, assistant, junior, trainee, analyst"

 

[Xordium]

What's the next career step after that?!

My mates son did that course through Bournemouth and now owns his own company, across 3 countries, and is a quite a wealthy young man. So I wouldn't write it off if the person is determined to do a good job, learn the ropes and most importantly make the right connections.

If you do any course for 'something to do' you are destined to fail. If you do a course as part of a overall goal with the actual talent to do it then you can make a go of anything.

Certain professions will have an institution bias and it won't necessarily be the universities you expect. So it pays to see who is the best provider for your career pathway before going to university. This is partly why I encourage people to not just jump straight to uni first but see if their goal is really what they want by starting in their target in a lower position first. More doors open that way.

 

[D.P.]

That is why I have focused away from graduate schemes. I did not go to a top 10 (or even 20) University. I studied Economics, got the 2:1 in that with a couple of first classes in certain modules. I am not aiming for a top firm as I know how competitive they are and would probably prefer a lesser known company that I could progress through. I have actually had interviews for those seeking top 10 Uni graduates however I believe it was due to my month work experiences at Barclays Capital and Citigroup in 2006, 2008 and 2011(not internships).

Having that prior experience should help a lot.

In the end it is a numbers+waiting game. Fire off the CVs and be patient. But don't get lazy - every application you really need to research the company, research the job, personalize a cover letter, adjust the CV to make it exactly relevant to the job being advertised. E.g., if you see certain key words and phrases in the job description, make sure those are prominent in your CV and covering letter. Pay attention to details.

Also, don't take no for granted. If you get a rejection make the effort to all up the HR person and find out why you were rejected, try to get a discussion going, show your interest, show that it is in the companies best interest to hire you because you would be a great asset and add value.

Just recently the son of the CEO a the company I work for applied for a junior trading job on wall street. Go rejected after a couple of hours of intense interviews, came out upset and called his dad. The CEO told him to go straight back in and demand a job because he is determined and strong, wont ever give less than a 110% effort, and will add value to the company. he got the a job there and then (with a 3 month initial trial period)

 

[D.P.]

Very true. However based on my searches a lot require previous experience. It is also quite hard to think of roles to search that don't contain graduate. My search history consists of "grad, graduate, intern, assistant, junior, trainee, analyst"

Every job will say something along the lines of previous experience but that doesn't make it a hard requirement (if they really want experience they will say 10+ years experience). The definition of experience is also vague, that doesn't entail industry experience.
You already have 3 years of economics experience with your degree, + you work experience, plus any other side obs/life projects.

 

[McB]

I think 1 out of my extended group of friends got on a grad scheme and that was accountancy 10 years ago. Don't get downhearted if you don't get a place straight away as in reality these roles have such a massive competition for them. After attending a few assessment centres I realised it wasn't for me as it was all about who shouted loudest rather than who actually made a meaningful contribution. If that is the capability needed for management at these firms I'll stick to being a pleb thanks and I'm doing alright at it.

Other colleagues who have been on schemes at Accenture, Aldi, etc, I think they blind a few people with massive salaries before just burning eager grads out and turning them over.

 

[valkia]

From threads like these i'm glad I didn't go to uni.