On Benefits & Proud

[FoxEye]

I agree, abolish the minimum wage and introduce a compulsory living wage in the UK.

I think this is what Ed Milliband was talking about when he talks about the assault on living standards. There's a cost associated with working - clothing, transport, petrol, food maybe. The cost of all these things have risen dramatically over the last few years and it's really starting to bite - it's no wonder that so many people are having to resort to food banks despite the Tory sneers.

As much as I'd like to see the minimum wage increased, we live in a world where companies can outsource just about everything.

We have already outsourced manufacturing, call centres, software development, etc, etc.

With an increased minimum wage (which I'd like to see), we'd have also to really clamp down on outsourcing. Which would mean a lot of companies leaving the UK, due to being unattractive compared to elsewhere.

In the end, we'd have to re-nationalise the essentials, and isolate ourselves from the outside world, essentially. Otherwise the profit-driven nature of all private business will always look for ways to use cheaper foreign labour, and cheaper foreign imports.

 

[spankingtexan]

There are a minority who get caught committing fraud... there are a shed load more who could simply do with getting a kick up the ass and made to work. I don't see a big issue with 'demonising' benefit claimants... if you're going to sponge off the rest of us and aren't doing everything in your power to go find work you shouldn't be feeling anything other than shame/guilt.



I don't see a problem with it short term but for long term claimants I really don't see the excuses... frankly I couldn't see myself ever lacking in motivation *that* much... If you've been unemployed for a while and really want work, any work, you can find it pretty easily assuming you're not a total and utter pleb... hundreds of thousands of people, for whom English is a second language, come to our country every year legally and otherwise.... these people manage to find paying work while a significant portion of our native white trash are supposedly unable to. Frankly workfare doesn't go far enough IMO. While you can lap up all the sob stories you like it isn't going to change the reality that a lot of hard working people don't like to see the money they earn being wasted on people who are simply taking the mickey.

What a load of crap. You should be ashamed for typing this^ rubbish. I hope you remember not to claim off the state should you find yourself in need, you wouldn't want to be a scrounger would you? Let's also hope you don't become to ill to work, after all we wouldn't want to listen to your sob story would we. Wondering how many white trash who applied and failed to get the job because the second language English speaking person got it? brilliant, give the paid work to the immigrant and force the white trash to work for free because he failed to get the paid job.

 

[spankingtexan]

Let them dismantle it i say mate, Scrap it all and let everyone fend for themselves and watch complete chaos ensue.The fact is people will never be happy and they judge intelligence on the wrong aspects.He thinks all benefit claimants look the same, talk the same and are all stupid.Yet how about the £12 billion per year given to the EU with no questions asked? How much was spent on the Iraq,Afghanistan,Libya,Syria conflicts? How much was given to the banks £40bn? How much spent on a war on drugs that is impossible to win? There is plenty of money in the world son enough to feed and house even human on earth by estimates.


The truth is benefits are only being stigmatized now the UK has been robbed by the banks and immigrants and filling min wage jobs and thus dropping the value of labour.When the good times rolled no one ever said as much as boo about benefits.They are using them as a scapegoat while offering them no way of self sustainment which in my opinion is a lax form of enslavement.

Wouldn't that be something, scrapping welfare outright overnight, you'd soon see all those benefit bashers go into a state of shock in the aftermath when their little what they think safe bubble pops.

 

[Bear]

Wondering how many white trash who applied and failed to get the job because the second language English speaking person got it? brilliant, give the paid work to the immigrant and force the white trash to work for free because he failed to get the paid job.

Spandextexan that wasn't what he was talking about and I think you know it. I don't agree with what Dowie is saying but you have to question why there are people that don't speak English as a first language and are getting jobs ahead of British people and no they are not all low paid jobs although I must admit that a lot of them probably are near minimum wage.

 

[spankingtexan]

Spandextexan that wasn't what he was talking about and I think you know it. I don't agree with what Dowie is saying but you have to question why there are people that don't speak English as a first language and are getting jobs ahead of British people and no they are not all low paid jobs although I must admit that a lot of them probably are near minimum wage.

I think you would have to question the employer as to why the immigrants are given the jobs, I do not believe for one second that white English did not also apply for the job. Dowie is out of order calling white English benefit claimants trash.

 

[Bear]

I think you would have to question the employer as to why the immigrants are given the jobs, I do not believe for one second that white English did not also apply for the job. Dowie is out of order calling white English benefit claimants trash.

I agree, I don't believe that British people did not apply for the jobs either but they must have chosen the immigrant for some reason. Without doubt being able to pay a lower wage must be a factor but it isn't the case in all instances as there are immigrant workers in all different job sectors, not just minimum wage type jobs.

 

[regulus]

Stupid TV fodder for stupid people

/thread

This. A thousand times this. People are just as stupid falling for this than the parasites in the program are. It's designed to anger you. It succeeded in its purpose judging by this thread.

The best you can do is not to watch this utter trash at all. Maybe then the TV channels will start producing intelligent programs again when their excrement is ignored. However, judging by the popularity of reality TV, it's sadly a long way off. Until then, mine will stay switched off.

 

[estebanrey]

I think you would have to question the employer as to why the immigrants are given the jobs

It seems like you are suggesting the abolition of Race discrimination laws.

Where I work we have a noticeable number of Eastern European workers in the physical labour jobs. You cannot directly apply for one of those jobs, we ask people to join our preferred temp agency. They then get taken on as a temp and any that impress get offered full time contracts with us.

It just so happens the foreign ones are less likely to call in sick, less likely to rush the job so they can knock off an hour early and more likely to do what you ask them to without moaning at or arguing with their superiors.

 

[spankingtexan]

It seems like you are suggesting the abolition of Race discrimination laws.

Where I work we have a noticeable number of Eastern European workers in the physical labour jobs. You cannot directly apply for one of those jobs, we ask people to join our preferred temp agency. They then get taken on as a temp and any that impress get offered full time contracts with us.

It just so happens the foreign ones are less likely to call in sick, less likely to rush the job so they can knock off an hour early and more likely to do what you ask them to without moaning at or arguing with their superiors.

Well I wasn't suggesting anything of the sort, it is interesting though that an employer might turn away a white native person in preference for the immigrant because he might suspect the white one will moan, argue and rush their work to knock off early, and they can tell this while interviewing a white person? Yeah, that does sound like race discrimination.

 

[estebanrey]

Well I wasn't suggesting anything of the sort, it is interesting though that an employer might turn away a white native person in preference for the immigrant because he might suspect the white one will moan, argue and rush their work to knock off early, and they can tell this while interviewing a white person? Yeah, that does sound like race discrimination.

You seem to have missed the bit where I said they get taken on as temps first and get offered jobs if they impress. We get to assess their actual work for a month or two. The complete opposite of prejudice as your post implies.

 

[spankingtexan]

You seem to have missed the bit where I said they get taken on as temps first and get offered jobs if they impress. We get to assess their actual work for a month or two. The complete opposite of prejudice as your post implies.

You seem to have forgot your last sentence, you implied that employers might discriminate against white people because they may assume the white one will be nothing but trouble. You stated it, not me.

 

[Dolph]

You seem to have forgot your last sentence, you implied that employers might discriminate against white people because they may assume the white one will be nothing but trouble. You stated it, not me.

No, he said that the on the whole the foreign workers performed better on the job and hence were more likely to be taken on. The only discrimination there is on performance. But I guess it is easier to carry on blaming other groups.

 

[Dolph]

As for the benefits system and stigma, while we have a system that takes from the successful and gives to the unsuccessful, it will always lead to stigmatisation. Thats why both beveridge and I support a proper universal system with no means testing...

 

[hawker1986]

This is obviously a big issue and has massive ethical implications.

I don't watch these shows because they enrage me but ive had some experience working with the homeless, and found it very rewarding most of the time.

Basically my take on the system is as someone said much earlier - people should not be given money as benefits, they should have housing, water heating electric etc paid for and then have access to food and clothing and nothing more.

This allows you to live but not live well on benefits and would encourage people to work.

This system would obviously be a nightmare to implement and police and would likely lead to some sort of black market and increase petty crime rates but the current system is hardly any better in this regard.

Annoys the hell out of me when taxes pay for people to have a big TV - I worked my arse off for one.

Hawker

 

[spankingtexan]

No, he said that the on the whole the foreign workers performed better on the job and hence were more likely to be taken on. The only discrimination there is on performance. But I guess it is easier to carry on blaming other groups.

No he didn't

quote
"It just so happens the foreign ones are less likely to call in sick, less likely to rush the job so they can knock off an hour early and more likely to do what you ask them to without moaning at or arguing with their superiors."

If the employer thinks like that then what chance does the white person have if immigrants apply for the job?
Turning down a native English person in favour of an immigrant for that reason without a shred of evidence is discrimination.

Oh, and I haven't started any blame game here, dowie kicked it off with this statement " hundreds of thousands of people, for whom English is a second language, come to our country every year legally and otherwise.... these people manage to find paying work while a significant portion of our native white trash are supposedly unable to."

I am merely responding to others posts.

 

[Dolph]

No he didn't

quote
"It just so happens the foreign ones are less likely to call in sick, less likely to rush the job so they can knock off an hour early and more likely to do what you ask them to without moaning at or arguing with their superiors."

If the employer thinks like that then what chance does the white person have if immigrants apply for the job?
Turning down a native English person in favour of an immigrant for that reason without a shred of evidence is discrimination.

That is after the first couple of months . It is actual objective measurement of perfomance in the role.

There is no unjust discrimination evident here apart from in your head.

 

[spankingtexan]

That is after the first couple of months . It is actual objective measurement of perfomance in the role.

There is no unjust discrimination evident here apart from in your head.

How can it be in my head? the implication was made, read what he said

 

[Bear]

No he didn't

quote
"It just so happens the foreign ones are less likely to call in sick, less likely to rush the job so they can knock off an hour early and more likely to do what you ask them to without moaning at or arguing with their superiors."

I am merely responding to others posts.

No you are selectively quoting to further your argument. If you re-read the paragraph just before the one you quoted above, it clearly states they are taken on as temps first through their preferred agency and then given permanent jobs based on performance, hence the above paragraph you quoted. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[spankingtexan]

No you are selectively quoting to further your argument. If you re-read the paragraph just before the one you quoted above, it clearly states they are taken on as temps first through their preferred agency and then given permanent jobs based on performance.

That was a separate statement to what he then implied that employers may think native white people might be trouble. I know exactly what he was implying and I think you and Dolph do to.

 

[Bear]

That was a separate statement to what he then implied that employers may think native white people might be trouble. I know exactly what he was implying and I think you and Dolph do to.

No it wasn't, how can anyone judge anyone's performance without previous experience of their work ? You have to read his post in context, I will quote it again so you can read what was posted, not what you wish was posted

Where I work we have a noticeable number of Eastern European workers in the physical labour jobs. You cannot directly apply for one of those jobs, we ask people to join our preferred temp agency. They then get taken on as a temp and any that impress get offered full time contracts with us.

It just so happens the foreign ones are less likely to call in sick, less likely to rush the job so they can knock off an hour early and more likely to do what you ask them to without moaning at or arguing with their superiors.

Stop being so ******* lame and try and insinuate something that wasn't said in the context you are suggesting.