Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [9 - 10th November 2013]
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Caporegime
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Watching this piece about Sunderland you've got to ask what Paolo Di Can'tio was doing at that club.
Caporegime
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I missed that 4th Liverpool goal yesterday, did Richardson have a huge bet on 4-0 or something? wtf was that.
LOL, happy you ****??
He was the best player on the pitch today which says a lot when usually hes one of the worst. Just a shame that none of our ****ing players ie Giroud or the last Samurai aka Bender could latch onto the end of his sublime crosses.
As for RVP??, still a good footballer but a massive ****ing Judas as far as im concerned.
still want him back at Arsenal though
He never earned the job in the first place tbh... He did kind of ok for almost a season at a league one team, and even then he was obviously a nut job who couldn't handle players.
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Caporegime
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So many people simply making stuff up that I said.
Did I say Ozil didn't improve the squad, no, did I say he was a complete waste and nothing but, no, did I say he was rubbish, no.
I said, specifically, he was a waste of a starting spot IN THIS GAME, that he is often a waste of a starting spot against the top teams.
He can make wins easier against less good teams. We've had 4 tougher games in a row against 4 tougher defences and Ozil hasn't performed in any of those games, not just the one. This isn't a guess, I said before we were in for him, I've commented on Real/Ozil for the past 4 years, and for Germany he exceptionally rarely turns up for these games.
That doesn't make him a crap player, it merely makes him not worth 42million, it makes him not a drastically brilliant edition to the squad... it's possible to be a good edition or even a great addition to a squad without being the bestest buy in the universe.
Can anyone else name a 40mil + purchase buy a club who has for 5 years had a very questionable performance level against better teams? Who said Ronaldo never performed against big teams? A couple of idiots because he often carried Utd and Portugal against big teams but because Mourinho played backs against the wall football and wanted Ronaldo to single handedly beat Barcelona in his first season there, Ronaldo was suddenly crap against the big teams? Mourinho changed his tactics after a huge loss and since those awful tactics Ronaldo has been brilliant against Barca. Because a couple of nitwits said Ronaldo was poor against big sides, it can't be true when people say it about Ozil?
WE could have started a better team today, it's that simple. Cazorla, particularly against better opposition, is a poor winger, he isn't a winger at all basically. Ozil on the bench, Cazorla in the middle where he is much more effective and someone else on the wing would have done more for us today. Monreal left back with Gibbs ahead of him maybe, Gnabry..... bringing on Bendtner at left wing was laughable. Not match fit and in the one position he has always looked really terrible for Arsenal.
AT best you could say after 3 non performances from Ozil, from a player most of the world recognises for lack of strength, lack of significant energy levels, it was a poor choice to play him and for the full 90 minutes in 6 of his last 7 games, with the only cup game, in which he shouldn't have even been on the bench, being a not full game. He was very poor when he came on in that game too.
I've said countless times, we lose and look poor in these runs of tough games because Wenger has absolutely no ability to use the squad. Ozil is the least energetic of our players at the best of times, let alone after several tough games in a row, after previous games in which he failed to rest Ozil against Palace/Norwich/cup game. Ozil shouldn't have started against Norwich/Palace, he shouldn't have been on the bench against Chelsea, he shouldn't have started today, he could have maybe come on in the last 30 mins, with no trouble trying to last 90 mins, against a more tired Utd and been effective.
A more energetic/physical player could have caused Utd more trouble over 90 minutes, it's as simple as that.
Look at how Mourinho used Ozil last year, before a run of three games against Valencia he was rested, then he played the first full game and when the two following games were going well he was given a rest by only played just over half the games.
So he was much fresher for the first leg of the cup game against Barca. He was then rested in the next game so he could start against Utd in the CL. He then had 67mins followed by only appearing for 35 mins of the second half, so he was fresher for the second leg of the cup game. Rested against Barca in the league so he could be fresher against Utd, etc.
It doesn't matter how good a player is, we thrashed Norwich and the result was assured after 58 minutes, he didn't need to start but certainly should have been subbed then and there, instead he was needlessly played till the end. Played the full 90 mins against Dortmund despite being pap, could have changed him, he then played the full 90 mins against Palace, stupid move, was on the bench against Chelsea with 3 tough games coming up, stupid. Played the full 90 mins against both Liverpool and Dortmund, was very poor, looked tired, didn't do much... started another game and played another full 90 mins despite offering less than any other player on the pitch.
It does not matter how good a player is, protect, save, rest, rotate, use effectively and you will get more out of ANY player. Wenger is utterly failing to do so with the hundreth player in a row.
Coming in to this run of games Ozil would have been fresher and offered more had he been rested before... it's not like the next fixture is a lottery. We KNEW these games were coming up, any other manager would have seen Palace/Norwich and rested Ozil... or played Ozil and rested him for the big games. Wenger recklessly played the less energetic player we have for the full 90 in all of them. Even the best player would have suffered due to that, let alone a not particularly fit player.
Outside of Ronaldo or a completely fit Messi there is basically no other player on earth that wouldn't have benefited from some early subbing and some complete rest games in that run... Ozil got neither. There are far far fitter and more energetic players than Ozil who benefit from being subbed early and a games where they aren't even required to warm up as a sub. Ronaldo is a complete and utter freak, even Messi, whose fitness and playing of every game has been a complete freak occurrence now appears to be suffering from being played so much, but Ozil one of the least fit players at a top team... we protect precisely not at all in any way?
Did I say Ozil didn't improve the squad, no, did I say he was a complete waste and nothing but, no, did I say he was rubbish, no.
I said, specifically, he was a waste of a starting spot IN THIS GAME, that he is often a waste of a starting spot against the top teams.
He can make wins easier against less good teams. We've had 4 tougher games in a row against 4 tougher defences and Ozil hasn't performed in any of those games, not just the one. This isn't a guess, I said before we were in for him, I've commented on Real/Ozil for the past 4 years, and for Germany he exceptionally rarely turns up for these games.
That doesn't make him a crap player, it merely makes him not worth 42million, it makes him not a drastically brilliant edition to the squad... it's possible to be a good edition or even a great addition to a squad without being the bestest buy in the universe.
Can anyone else name a 40mil + purchase buy a club who has for 5 years had a very questionable performance level against better teams? Who said Ronaldo never performed against big teams? A couple of idiots because he often carried Utd and Portugal against big teams but because Mourinho played backs against the wall football and wanted Ronaldo to single handedly beat Barcelona in his first season there, Ronaldo was suddenly crap against the big teams? Mourinho changed his tactics after a huge loss and since those awful tactics Ronaldo has been brilliant against Barca. Because a couple of nitwits said Ronaldo was poor against big sides, it can't be true when people say it about Ozil?
WE could have started a better team today, it's that simple. Cazorla, particularly against better opposition, is a poor winger, he isn't a winger at all basically. Ozil on the bench, Cazorla in the middle where he is much more effective and someone else on the wing would have done more for us today. Monreal left back with Gibbs ahead of him maybe, Gnabry..... bringing on Bendtner at left wing was laughable. Not match fit and in the one position he has always looked really terrible for Arsenal.
AT best you could say after 3 non performances from Ozil, from a player most of the world recognises for lack of strength, lack of significant energy levels, it was a poor choice to play him and for the full 90 minutes in 6 of his last 7 games, with the only cup game, in which he shouldn't have even been on the bench, being a not full game. He was very poor when he came on in that game too.
I've said countless times, we lose and look poor in these runs of tough games because Wenger has absolutely no ability to use the squad. Ozil is the least energetic of our players at the best of times, let alone after several tough games in a row, after previous games in which he failed to rest Ozil against Palace/Norwich/cup game. Ozil shouldn't have started against Norwich/Palace, he shouldn't have been on the bench against Chelsea, he shouldn't have started today, he could have maybe come on in the last 30 mins, with no trouble trying to last 90 mins, against a more tired Utd and been effective.
A more energetic/physical player could have caused Utd more trouble over 90 minutes, it's as simple as that.
Look at how Mourinho used Ozil last year, before a run of three games against Valencia he was rested, then he played the first full game and when the two following games were going well he was given a rest by only played just over half the games.
So he was much fresher for the first leg of the cup game against Barca. He was then rested in the next game so he could start against Utd in the CL. He then had 67mins followed by only appearing for 35 mins of the second half, so he was fresher for the second leg of the cup game. Rested against Barca in the league so he could be fresher against Utd, etc.
It doesn't matter how good a player is, we thrashed Norwich and the result was assured after 58 minutes, he didn't need to start but certainly should have been subbed then and there, instead he was needlessly played till the end. Played the full 90 mins against Dortmund despite being pap, could have changed him, he then played the full 90 mins against Palace, stupid move, was on the bench against Chelsea with 3 tough games coming up, stupid. Played the full 90 mins against both Liverpool and Dortmund, was very poor, looked tired, didn't do much... started another game and played another full 90 mins despite offering less than any other player on the pitch.
It does not matter how good a player is, protect, save, rest, rotate, use effectively and you will get more out of ANY player. Wenger is utterly failing to do so with the hundreth player in a row.
Coming in to this run of games Ozil would have been fresher and offered more had he been rested before... it's not like the next fixture is a lottery. We KNEW these games were coming up, any other manager would have seen Palace/Norwich and rested Ozil... or played Ozil and rested him for the big games. Wenger recklessly played the less energetic player we have for the full 90 in all of them. Even the best player would have suffered due to that, let alone a not particularly fit player.
Outside of Ronaldo or a completely fit Messi there is basically no other player on earth that wouldn't have benefited from some early subbing and some complete rest games in that run... Ozil got neither. There are far far fitter and more energetic players than Ozil who benefit from being subbed early and a games where they aren't even required to warm up as a sub. Ronaldo is a complete and utter freak, even Messi, whose fitness and playing of every game has been a complete freak occurrence now appears to be suffering from being played so much, but Ozil one of the least fit players at a top team... we protect precisely not at all in any way?
Last edited:
Caporegime
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I take it fellaini is going to burst onto the scene next week then having being rested for 89 minutes this weekend?
Is it better to overpay for a good midfielder who has a few mediocre games. Or to overpay for a midfielder who isn't very good and doesn't doesn't play well ? Id take ozil oveelr fellaini many days of thevweek.
Is it better to overpay for a good midfielder who has a few mediocre games. Or to overpay for a midfielder who isn't very good and doesn't doesn't play well ? Id take ozil oveelr fellaini many days of thevweek.
Very good summary
Jones was immense in the middle, similar dispaly to his game against RM last season in the CL. To be fair to him he did well replacing Vidic in the 2nd half too, although Im not sure how he would have done with better strikers attacking him (rather than midfields on good goal'scoring form), but he still deserves a lot of credit.
Credit to WR too, he was absolutely everywhere giving it his all (sometimes too much with the deserves - and well-natured acceptance- of the yellow card) , its fantastic seeing him in this kind of form when he just looks 10 times better than the majority of last season / maybe even last two seasons.
It does annoy me when a lot of people will happily say Jones isnt a right back, but doesnt give the same credit to Smalling (who I thought played very well again in a position he isnt comfortable in). I just hope that he doesnt get left out in the cold in his best position, because he is currently the best right back fill-in for Rafael.
Well said Franky.
The problem with United fans is that they are far too critical of the likes of Jones/Smalling, there wasn't much moaning in here yesterday before the match but you can imagine what it would have been normally - Smalling again WTF blah blah, Jones in midfield, Moyes doesn't have a clue blah blah and that's from the United 'fans'
Fact of the matter is, Smalling had an outstanding game, it's handy we can revert to 3 CB's when needed, especially when we need height at set pieces, which is why Smalling tends to play against the Stokes of this world.
Jones did the old Fletcher against Arsenal role, stop them playing through the middle, break up play and did it perfectly well, again, also handy that when we lost Vidic he can slot into CB with out much drama. United fans are far too quick to criticise.
I still think we need better midfield options - and apart from Anderson, who I think is a waste of even a squad place (and fletcher, who it would be immensely unfair of given the situation) its going to be difficult to find spaces for new people
Don't get me wrong, we still need to strengthen in the middle most definitely, I just get annoyed with the United fans on here who think it's a god given right to buy the best players in the world every year. Whilst the likes of Smalling, Jones, Welbeck etc get slated.
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Some awful refereeing this weekend.. i thought Dawson should have gone yesterday. I've not had time to tee it on the TV but it was clear from where i was..
Stoke and Chelsea both lucky imo.
Stoke and Chelsea both lucky imo.
I agree with you - although Im not convinced about Welbeck in the slightest.
The point lost some of its relevance when Welbeck crept into that list.
I thought Smalling and Jones came of age yesterday. They looked reliable, confident and committed. There is no doubt that having strong athletic players helps destruct teams like Arsenal who are so good at passing the ball. Moyes hinted that he knows there are still several elements of United's play that are lacking. They battled out a result yesterday but looked typically short of much creativity either on the ball or with regard to movement off it.
Valencia has developed into to defensive a player which is fine when you want to contain a team and support your back four but his impact in the oppositions half really needs some attention. for the amount of ball he sees and position he takes up, there is a very disappointing amount of impact or chance creation. Januzaj looks a far better option but not vs Arsenal when a loss would take you out of the title race.
I still feel Arsenal look like they lack some experienced strong leadership in the middle of the pitch. You need that in games like yesterday. Someone who can win some key 50:50s and marshall a team midway through a half. As it was they allowed United pretty much to dominate the first 45 mins albeit without much penetration. Ramsay, Carzola, Flamini and Ozil were all quite subdued until Wenger got them in at halftime and United were forced to shift Jones back to CB.
No matches for nearly two weeks now. The start of the season is a complete joke now with all the international breaks