I hate my place :(

[Zethor]

I don't agree that replacing "white" with "black" and "man" for "woman" make those statements sound particularly odd, nor do I agree they highlight a discrimatory element to the originals.

You're right in saying Hague could have merely used the word "stupid" without referring to Jamieson's gender, but it's a bit of a leap to say that the inclusion of "woman" points to repressed sexism. If a kid does/says something silly, they're often called a "stupid boy" or "stupid girl" so why shouldn't the same rule apply to adults?

The terms "stupid boy" and "stupid girl" are commonly and equally used to put emphasis on age so the gender is irrelevant and can be easily replaced with "stupid child". The same rule does not apply to adults because adults commonly use the word "stupid". There's simply no need to add the gender so doing so is often a sign of sexism.

As for the mugging scenario, alluding to the mugger's ethnicity could be completely innocent and mentioned purely to offer greater description of the asailant. You're not saying the mugger's ethnicity was the reason he/she mugged you, you're just recognisisng it as a distinguishing feature.

It could be completely innocent, yes, there are no absolutes in human behaviour. However, the question is, why does the person who makes the statement feel the "need" to mention race, while other distinguishing features are left out? Your example has no context and it's true it's difficult to make an assessment but the OP's complaint provides plenty of context.

"Firstly they are of ethnic origin" - that's how he starts his complaint. If they had been English, he wouldn't have started with "Firstly they are of English origin". If you don't see how this is racism or xenophobia, you don't understand the terms.

I really do wonder why some people go to such lengths to shy away from all mention of race, as though it's completely taboo regardless of context. What are you afraid of exactly?

Most people are afraid of exposing their racist/xenophobic impulses because our culture has progressed to the point where we recognise that they are morally wrong.
We discriminate because we evolved to be suspicious of anyone who looks different or acts differently. We have also developed preconceived ideas regarding the " proper place" of certain people in society (such as women) and it's only been a few generations since we started to phase out these ideas.

Being afraid to sound racist/sexist/xenophobic makes you a better human being.

 

[Woden]

Replace "black man" with "white man" and "stupid woman" with "stupid man". The statements sound a bit odd now, because there is a subtle form of discrimination in the original form. We can even make the "white man" form sound racist if we imagine it came from a Japanese man living in his home country.

The tendency to describe the mugger as just "black", rather than making a more accurate description such as "tall/short, slim/well-built, black man" , shows repressed racism. Similarly, William Hague could have just used the word "stupid" and the message would've been the same. He added the word "woman" due to his repressed sexism.

Regarding the OP, mentioning that his neighbours are "ethnics" has no bearing on his report so, again, xenophobia or racism are lurking around the corner.

I'm sorry, OP is obviously racist ... but ... bull.

"Black man" is not a racist term, it's a description. In the UK him being black would be his most distinguishing feature, the thing that comes to mind first because there aren't that many compared to whites. If I mugged someone in Japan it woudln't be racist fr them to say "some white guy nicked my phone!".

Same with the word "woman". It's a description, a pretty acurate one at that. She would probably be more offended if he said she wasn't a woman wouldn't she? Would it be sexist for him to call a bloke a "stupid man"?

The fact that you seem to think that women and black people are so thin skinned that an accurate innofensive description would be offensive to them speaks volumes about you to be honest. Do you feel they are emotionally/psychologically weaker and therefore need our protection?

 

[~>Dg<~]

haha at internerds knitpicking turned a guys sorro into a racist witch hunt comedy gold

 

[K-2]

The terms "stupid boy" and "stupid girl" are commonly and equally used to put emphasis on age so the gender is irrelevant and can be easily replaced with "stupid child". The same rule does not apply to adults because adults commonly use the word "stupid". There's simply no need to add the gender so doing so is often a sign of sexism.




It could be completely innocent, yes, there are no absolutes in human behaviour. However, the question is, why does the person who makes the statement feel the "need" to mention race, while other distinguishing features are left out? Your example has no context and it's true it's difficult to make an assessment but the OP's complaint provides plenty of context.

"Firstly they are of ethnic origin" - that's how he starts his complaint. If they had been English, he wouldn't have started with "Firstly they are of English origin". If you don't see how this is racism or xenophobia, you don't understand the terms.



Most people are afraid of exposing their racist/xenophobic impulses because our culture has progressed to the point where we recognise that they are morally wrong.
We discriminate because we evolved to be suspicious of anyone who looks different or acts differently. We have also developed preconceived ideas regarding the " proper place" of certain people in society (such as women) and it's only been a few generations since we started to phase out these ideas.

Being afraid to sound racist/sexist/xenophobic makes you a better human being.

No, it doesn't. It makes you appear to be a better human...big difference.

 

[Raumarik]

Yup he used the word ethnic, HE IS A RACIST

So did you, RACIST.

Damn it. I quoted it, does that make me a racist too?

 

[.Lethal]

haha at internerds knitpicking turned a guys sorro into a racist witch hunt comedy gold

This is why GD has it's reputation for what it is.

It can be a really great place at times, at others we get threads like this.

 

[HAz]

sounds like a right dump, time to move on I think.

 

[tom_e]

I'm going to put this out there, what's the difference between calling someone black or fat or ginger.
Sod all, black ****, fat ****, ginger **** they're all the same although there's only one that would have you labelled a terrible Hitler worshiping racist.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Minorities are far more likely to commit crimes than natives, therefore ethnicity is a valid concern to raise.

 

[tom_e]

Minorities are far more likely to commit crimes than natives, therefore ethnicity is a valid concern to raise.

Got any proof to back that up? Or is it from the same train of thought that brought us "All the immigrants are coming and stealing our benefits" which was shown to be complete tosh by some recent research.

 

[kbc]

Minorities are far more likely to commit crimes than natives, therefore ethnicity is a valid concern to raise.

That is the biggest load of tripe ever. Ethnicity is a valid concern to raise?

 

[chief barker]

Could be worse. Could have a drummer as a neighbour. I had one that played the flute.

Ah a Flute playing drummer eh? they're the worst kind.

 

[.Lethal]

Ah a Flute playing drummer eh? they're the worst kind.

hahaha

Strangly reminded me of this

 

[nick.lidgett]

Do you not think a black victim of mugging would describe the mugger as a ''white man'', first and foremost?

Of course he wouldn't because white folk don't mug people ethnics do, just ask Thompson_NCL

Minorities are far more likely to commit crimes than natives, therefore ethnicity is a valid concern to raise.

 

[tom_e]

Of course he wouldn't because white folk don't mug people ethnics do, just ask Thompson_NCL

No, no, no rappers do. Gold Lookin Chain told us this years ago.

 

[spoffle]

This is why GD has it's reputation for what it is.

It can be a really great place at times, at others we get threads like this.

Go and have a look through his previous threads to see that his problems often revolve around people not being white British, and that being the source of his difficulties in situations rather than what is actually happening.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Got any proof to back that up? Or is it from the same train of thought that brought us "All the immigrants are coming and stealing our benefits" which was shown to be complete tosh by some recent research.

30% of the prison population are from minority groups, despite representing less than 15% of the total population.

 

[tom_e]

30% of the prison population are from minority groups, despite representing less than 15% of the total population.

And 15% of the time I'm right every time.
Spouting some groundless percentages isn't backing up your statement.

 

[G|mp]

Do you not think a black victim of mugging would describe the mugger as a ''white man'', first and foremost?

Hi Amy, how's my hot little forum gf

 

[Zethor]

I'm sorry, OP is obviously racist ... but ... bull.

"Black man" is not a racist term, it's a description. In the UK him being black would be his most distinguishing feature, the thing that comes to mind first because there aren't that many compared to whites. If I mugged someone in Japan it woudln't be racist fr them to say "some white guy nicked my phone!".

Same with the word "woman". It's a description, a pretty acurate one at that. She would probably be more offended if he said she wasn't a woman wouldn't she? Would it be sexist for him to call a bloke a "stupid man"?

I explained in my other post that context is important. My opinion is based on the observation that when the target belongs to the dominant group, race/gender is rarely mentioned but when they belong to a minority, it is often mentioned. I believe this can be explained by repressed racism/sexism but I'm open to any other explanation.

The fact that you seem to think that women and black people are so thin skinned that an accurate innofensive description would be offensive to them speaks volumes about you to be honest. Do you feel they are emotionally/psychologically weaker and therefore need our protection?

No, my judgement is not clouded by Psychological Projection . I do not see racism everywhere because I am a rabid racist, good try tho .

Discrimination exists and it is an evolutionary trait so we all "practice" it to some extent. This however does not make it acceptable, especially if we consider we are now more "mixed" from schools to work places than ever before so it's in the interest of social cohesion that we become aware of and try to avoid it, along with other primitive impulses.

No, it doesn't. It makes you appear to be a better human...big difference.

If some random person passing by does not put a knife to my neck to rob me, it doesn't matter that they act this way due to social pressure or morality. The fact that they don't it is enough for me to consider them a decent person.