Soldato
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http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...ller-pc-processor-architecture-a-dud--1205237
Don't shoot the messenger, I really hope it isn't a dud...
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Is AMD's new Steamroller PC processor architecture a dud?
- Thread starter Boomstick777
- Start date
http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...ller-pc-processor-architecture-a-dud--1205237
Don't shoot the messenger, I really hope it isn't a dud...
Caporegime
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Don't shoot the messenger for posting a troll article?
There isn't the bandwidth for 8 cores on dual channel ddr3, AMD can't afford to constantly tape out new chips, ddr4 is delayed, ddr4 brings with it things like HBM, die stacking, tsv's, on die memory potential. DDR4/next gen stuff is where the big gains are, there is incredibly little reason to spend 10's/100's of millions in R&D, taping out, production for a small market segment for chips that will be heavily bandwidth limited and a short lived platform.
There is unfortunately no reason to invest in an 8 core platform till ddr4 is available, Intel delays products for ddr4, hunky dory, AMD does it... the world is ending... imagine my surprise.
yes, I'd love a 8 core fx steamroller, but if by unlocking the bottleneck of the decoder and a few other things they simply slam into a bandwidth bottleneck, there won't be much difference in outright performance.
Did they can steamroller in Kaveri, no, is Kaveri by everyone who has seen it been said to be excellent, yes, so can anyone suggest the architecture is a dud... only those reporters on Intel's pay role.
This is also excluding the simple fact that aside from Intel/Nvidia, the entire industry is going HSA. Java amongst many other big software developers are going HSA, games are going HSA. An on die GPU is going to be AS important as good cpu cores in the upcoming years, it's very possible AMD don't make another non APU chip because APU's is where the industry is going. Yes in the future I hope to have an 8 core + on die gpu + much more widespread software to use that gpu, and that IS coming.
3-4 years ago everyone wanted gpu accelerated software, but no one knew how to do it in a way that the work isn't repeated constantly and done differently, so the transition never happened. Then HSA stepped up, and now the industry has a design path in which to move all their software into being gpu accelerated where ever possible(which is MANY bits of most software). This is the transition everyone hoped for a few years ago but didn't happen, it didn't happen not because of hardware, but the software complexity, the software complexity issue is in the process of being reduced by an industry wide push of people working together. It's not a case of IF it will happen now, but WHEN, and that WHEN is getting much closer. Java for instance is a very very widely used and cross platform and it's in the beta stages of adding HSA.
The next couple of years will probably see some more cpu only chips but in 2, maybe 3 years, everything will be APU. With Intel they can afford to make CPU only chips up till the day it happens, with AMD the logistics of keeping a cpu only line when it's a complete dead end in the near future.... makes the question of if we'll see more CPU only chips from AMD a complete unknown.
There isn't the bandwidth for 8 cores on dual channel ddr3, AMD can't afford to constantly tape out new chips, ddr4 is delayed, ddr4 brings with it things like HBM, die stacking, tsv's, on die memory potential. DDR4/next gen stuff is where the big gains are, there is incredibly little reason to spend 10's/100's of millions in R&D, taping out, production for a small market segment for chips that will be heavily bandwidth limited and a short lived platform.
There is unfortunately no reason to invest in an 8 core platform till ddr4 is available, Intel delays products for ddr4, hunky dory, AMD does it... the world is ending... imagine my surprise.
yes, I'd love a 8 core fx steamroller, but if by unlocking the bottleneck of the decoder and a few other things they simply slam into a bandwidth bottleneck, there won't be much difference in outright performance.
Did they can steamroller in Kaveri, no, is Kaveri by everyone who has seen it been said to be excellent, yes, so can anyone suggest the architecture is a dud... only those reporters on Intel's pay role.
This is also excluding the simple fact that aside from Intel/Nvidia, the entire industry is going HSA. Java amongst many other big software developers are going HSA, games are going HSA. An on die GPU is going to be AS important as good cpu cores in the upcoming years, it's very possible AMD don't make another non APU chip because APU's is where the industry is going. Yes in the future I hope to have an 8 core + on die gpu + much more widespread software to use that gpu, and that IS coming.
3-4 years ago everyone wanted gpu accelerated software, but no one knew how to do it in a way that the work isn't repeated constantly and done differently, so the transition never happened. Then HSA stepped up, and now the industry has a design path in which to move all their software into being gpu accelerated where ever possible(which is MANY bits of most software). This is the transition everyone hoped for a few years ago but didn't happen, it didn't happen not because of hardware, but the software complexity, the software complexity issue is in the process of being reduced by an industry wide push of people working together. It's not a case of IF it will happen now, but WHEN, and that WHEN is getting much closer. Java for instance is a very very widely used and cross platform and it's in the beta stages of adding HSA.
The next couple of years will probably see some more cpu only chips but in 2, maybe 3 years, everything will be APU. With Intel they can afford to make CPU only chips up till the day it happens, with AMD the logistics of keeping a cpu only line when it's a complete dead end in the near future.... makes the question of if we'll see more CPU only chips from AMD a complete unknown.
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It's not trolling, I just gave the link to the article ffs. That's exactly why I wrote don't shoot the messenger, I know someone would get personal.. Yeah we all like AMD but try and take your love for them out of the picture and just read it. The good thing is, maybe AMD will respond to this article and reveal if they do have any future higher end desktop CPU plans. Speculation from forum members is ok, but I would like legit info from AMD themselves if they have any future plans. Hopefully they will respond.
Pointless whining article. CPUs are already plenty powerful, and if they're not good enough for a task then the solution is to get a specialised chip to do it (e.g. H264 encoding/decoding), offload it to a parallel/vector computer (e.g. GPU), or improve your software/API (e.g. mantle).
AMD are making huge gains in the above areas, so there's no point in complaining about the lack of 8 core CPUs when there are already better tools for the job. The author wants more powerful CPUs for the sake of it.
P.S. nice reply drunkenmaster.
AMD are making huge gains in the above areas, so there's no point in complaining about the lack of 8 core CPUs when there are already better tools for the job. The author wants more powerful CPUs for the sake of it.
P.S. nice reply drunkenmaster.
We need to get the enthusiast glasses off, or the pcs are only for gaming or benching goggles off, and look at where the markets been heading for quite a while now.
People don't need or want another big heaving atx tower when their current core 2 still does a good job, or a mini pc, android fag box htpc or inexpensive smart phones or tablets provide them with their daily needs.
Apu's make sense but it's going to take time for their efforts to pay off and perform.
The days of the desktop will probably become a niche market like HIFI did, other form factors such as mini pc, soc in a box will provide a stop gap to the average Joe, until Cloud and streaming boxes become the main market.
Amd can now be taken seriously in ultramobile and mobile devices, that it is their focus to make money in the sector that's most profitable, but it's now the most competitive. Those who have followed Amd for years no the mistakes they made by selling off their mobile division, it worked out for them to keep them afloat but in the long term they still need it.
Big cores whilst still hold ground in todays environment will become less so as development in apu's and hsa makes ground.
People don't need or want another big heaving atx tower when their current core 2 still does a good job, or a mini pc, android fag box htpc or inexpensive smart phones or tablets provide them with their daily needs.
Apu's make sense but it's going to take time for their efforts to pay off and perform.
The days of the desktop will probably become a niche market like HIFI did, other form factors such as mini pc, soc in a box will provide a stop gap to the average Joe, until Cloud and streaming boxes become the main market.
Amd can now be taken seriously in ultramobile and mobile devices, that it is their focus to make money in the sector that's most profitable, but it's now the most competitive. Those who have followed Amd for years no the mistakes they made by selling off their mobile division, it worked out for them to keep them afloat but in the long term they still need it.
Big cores whilst still hold ground in todays environment will become less so as development in apu's and hsa makes ground.
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If Mantle really does take off then there will simple be no NEED for higher performance CPU's from AMD.
Yeah I must say, that article is incredibly dismissive and pessimistic.
The reason AMD have probably extended Piledriver in their roadmap is because it's selling well. They must be selling well, as they're going to keep them around for at least another year. Asrock have just detailed an M2 Killer motherboard that is of really high spec. They would not have done so if they had no hope for Piledriver.
The fact is that whilst Piledriver may not compete with Haswell it still competes at a price level. People are buying AMD CPUs, because if they weren't AMD would stop making them and stop selling them. Businesses do not make products that aren't selling.
So the writer of that article can take a jump IMO. He needs to stop sulking.
The reason AMD have probably extended Piledriver in their roadmap is because it's selling well. They must be selling well, as they're going to keep them around for at least another year. Asrock have just detailed an M2 Killer motherboard that is of really high spec. They would not have done so if they had no hope for Piledriver.
The fact is that whilst Piledriver may not compete with Haswell it still competes at a price level. People are buying AMD CPUs, because if they weren't AMD would stop making them and stop selling them. Businesses do not make products that aren't selling.
So the writer of that article can take a jump IMO. He needs to stop sulking.
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I don't now why some here feel the need to be so defensive. DM and AlxAndy are the worse offenders.
I for one hope AMD do have a new arch coming in 2014, I wanted a nice 8 core SR setup, just Pile-driver is a disappointment for me. You guys think it's fantastic.. Ok.
The posts here saying AMD never need to release another CPU, everything's already more than powerful enough.. Mantle etc..
Those guys will be the first in line to buy new AMD chips ! Shouting from the rooftops, about how good they are if they matched Intel
Be interesting to see how the comments will change if AMD do announce new stuff in 2014, all of sudden that will be the best thing ever, AMD ftw.
I for one hope AMD do have a new arch coming in 2014, I wanted a nice 8 core SR setup, just Pile-driver is a disappointment for me. You guys think it's fantastic.. Ok.
The posts here saying AMD never need to release another CPU, everything's already more than powerful enough.. Mantle etc..
Those guys will be the first in line to buy new AMD chips ! Shouting from the rooftops, about how good they are if they matched Intel
Be interesting to see how the comments will change if AMD do announce new stuff in 2014, all of sudden that will be the best thing ever, AMD ftw.
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I don't now why some here feel the need to be so defensive. DM and AlxAndy are the worse offenders.
I for one hope AMD do have a new arch coming in 2014, I wanted a nice 8 core SR setup, just Pile-driver is a disappointment for me. You guys think it's fantastic.. Ok.
The posts here saying AMD never need to release another CPU, everything's already more than powerful enough.. Mantle etc..
Those guys will be the first in line to buy new AMD chips ! Shouting from the rooftops, about how good they are if they matched Intel
I think AMD are completely **** poor for gaming but if they do end up releasing a new architecture that at least matches the first generation i7's in terms of IPC, clocks decently and has reduced power consumption then I may be tempted to move back to them.
Defensive? not really. Do you agree with the article then?
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I do.... And I seriously hope AMD ditch the FX architecture and socket AM3+
I wasn't talking to you.
Soldato
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I hope they ditch AM3+...No point keeping it around, crawling around in pain. Make it a humane and clean death, give the socket the bleeding leathal.
Even with a clean sheet, doubt they would make something that'd interest me enough to buy. My next upgrade path will be Haswell-E (whenever that is, keeping this 4770k till then however)
Even with a clean sheet, doubt they would make something that'd interest me enough to buy. My next upgrade path will be Haswell-E (whenever that is, keeping this 4770k till then however)
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Touchy aren't we....
No not really. I just don't reply to things put to others.
Mmm lovely cynical post. Basically I wouldn't buy AMD no matter what they make.
Probably a good thing they don't give a monkeys what you think really.
Soldato
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They should, i'm part of the enthusiast segment of their market, the problem is they cannot even come close to where Intel are currently. Hence why Intel take my money, it'll stay that way for a good few generations at this rate.
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Indeed... They have a lot of making up and proving to do before I buy from them again.... I dropped £250 on an AMD motherboard ready for Bulldozer only to be greated by the junk that it was.
I was then forced to move to Intel as that was the only way I could get a decent performance increase over my at the time Phenom 2 x6
I don't think the architecture itself is a dud, AMD's execution of it seems poor though IMO.
Fraid I don't buy the bandwidth arguement - basic DDR4 bandwidth is similiar to a decent 2133MHz dual channel DDR3 kit today and none of the current high end CPUs really need quad channel DDR3 that badly - its useful on some of the more high end xeons but they aren't crippled without it.
Fraid I don't buy the bandwidth arguement - basic DDR4 bandwidth is similiar to a decent 2133MHz dual channel DDR3 kit today and none of the current high end CPUs really need quad channel DDR3 that badly - its useful on some of the more high end xeons but they aren't crippled without it.