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Discussing GCN Architecture, Performance & The Future

ubersonic said:
Gamers don't use APU's currently because it's pointless
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err um...what do they use then?

Last time I looked all but 3 of the currant Intel line up (not including Xeon's) are APU's, whereas AMD do have 8 non APU processor in their currant line up although I really wouldn't like to say how many of those are suitable for gaming.

Anyway that aside everyone seem to be thinking this is a two way fight between AMD and Nvidia, but what of Intel. They have the biggest slice of the GPU market by a long way, if Mantle really is going to give the slower APU's a fighting chance then surely AMD would be best served to get Intel on board as apposed to Nvidia?
 
bru said:
err um...what do they use then?

Last time I looked all but 3 of the currant Intel line up (not including Xeon's) are APU's
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The post you quoted was in response to one about AMD APU's, Intel ones were not involved.


humbug said:
How did another Mantle thread turn into another PhysX thread?
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A Cocacola thread will eventually mention Pepsi, just the law of things, the similarities between Mantle/PhysX and peoples double standard towards them makes it a point of discussion that will eventually be reached.
 
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Really mantle could well fail and only ever be supported on a handful of games and still make a big difference, If it pushes DirectX to become more efficient and provide the same sort of access to the GFX card.

And DriectX is really showing its flaws now with OpenGL on Linux outperforming it.

At the end of the day PC gaming does need something like mantle to become as optimized as console gaming (assuming the XBONE / PS4 use a heavily optimized version of their native API's)
 
Blasphemy lol. You're right though of course it's a possibility. OpenGL has been out performing DX for awhile, and it comes as no surprise. Really everyone should be holding the pitch forks at MS. They're the sole reason AMD have decided it's a good move to invest huge resources in tackling it. I'm guessing even AMD would have loved to see advancements in DX. There are a few that have been announced for DX11.2 which will tackle certain things (tiled resources etc), and also claims to have lower level access but whether we'll ever see this is any ones guess.
 
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MjFrosty said:
Blasphemy lol. You're right though of course it's a possibility. OpenGL has been out performing DX for awhile, and it comes as no surprise. Really everyone should be holding the pitch forks at MS. They're the sole reason AMD have decided it's a good move to invest huge resources in tackling it. I'm guessing even AMD would have loved to see advancements in DX. There are a few that have been announced for DX11.2 which will tackle certain things (tiled resources etc), and also claims to have lower level access but whether we'll ever see this is any ones guess.
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T'is true.

AMD owners blaming nVidia and vice versa whilst MicroSoft are getting away with it scot free.
 
MjFrosty said:
Blasphemy lol. You're right though of course it's a possibility. OpenGL has been out performing DX for awhile, and it comes as no surprise. Really everyone should be holding the pitch forks at MS. They're the sole reason AMD have decided it's a good move to invest huge resources in tackling it. I'm guessing even AMD would have loved to see advancements in DX. There are a few that have been announced for DX11.2 which will tackle certain things (tiled resources etc), and also claims to have lower level access but whether we'll ever see this is any ones guess.
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Gregster said:
T'is true.

AMD owners blaming nVidia and vice versa whilst MicroSoft are getting away with it scot free.
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To be honest (i know it will never happen but ill say it anyway) it would be best if AMD / Nvidia (anyone else who wanted to) create a competitor to DirectX that was multi platform like OpenGL and had the advantage of being able to have more direct access to the hardware like mantle ....

But i am dreaming and it will never happen ;)

<kindofofftopic>
It would be cool however (if mantle was to become open later in its development) for a Linux port to be made. Many high profile game studios (like dice) have hinted at moving their current / next gen engine to Linux ..... we could see a future when the gaming OS of choice is Linux :O (Boost of lower resources for the OS AND the boost of a mantle esc. API)
</kindofofftopic>
 
MjFrosty said:
Really everyone should be holding the pitch forks at MS. They're the sole reason AMD have decided it's a good move to invest huge resources in tackling it.
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I reckon the reason they are tackling it now is because their hardware is in both consoles and they probably learned a lot in the development of consoles about API's.

It also sort of ties in with their APU development and HSA.
 
melmac said:
I reckon the reason they are tackling it now is because their hardware is in both consoles and they probably learned a lot in the development of consoles about API's.

It also sort of ties in with their APU development and HSA.
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Oh definitely, you'd like to think they took a lot away from working with dedicated hardware that helped them realise the potential.

And to what you said originally - yes that would be amazing! Much like OpenGL is with all the big names able to add their pieces to the pie it would be fantastic, but I think possibly this is why we've not seen any colaberation like this since OpenGL was more mainstream.

Want a list? Nvidia SLi support not functioning on certain Intel chipsets
Nvidia tampering forcewares for benchmarking in review stakes
Intel didn't let NV make chipsets for Nhelman
Nvidia have to then renew licencing for every intel chipset
Nvidia locks out PhysX
Nvidia initially locks out SLi from AMD motherboards


So a collaborated effort between these two at least (Nvidia / Intel), is about as likely as pigs flying.

So it's up to Microsoft!!! Wait no, It's up to AMD! ;)

Hopefully OpenGL will really come into it's own now, and it's a shame it didn't happen sooner.
 
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Apache14 said:
To be honest (i know it will never happen but ill say it anyway) it would be best if AMD / Nvidia (anyone else who wanted to) create a competitor to DirectX that was multi platform like OpenGL and had the advantage of being able to have more direct access to the hardware like mantle ....

But i am dreaming and it will never happen ;)

<kindofofftopic>
It would be cool however (if mantle was to become open later in its development) for a Linux port to be made. Many high profile game studios (like dice) have hinted at moving their current / next gen engine to Linux ..... we could see a future when the gaming OS of choice is Linux :O (Boost of lower resources for the OS AND the boost of a mantle esc. API)
</kindofofftopic>
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you're not dreaming, it is already happening - Nvidia's OpenGL extensions already give Nvidia hardware a huge boost compared with DX, and AMD have already said they are working on their own extensions that give a "near mantle" level of performance... quite obviously SteamOS / Valve being the driving force behind this has finally gotten both vendors to take Linux/OpenGL seriously again

I predict that mantle will stay relatively limited in terms of developer uptake whilst is remains AMD / Windows only... OpenGL / SteamOS work is already happening so the race is on really to see which gains developer confidence quickest
 
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