Sanctions to hit part time workers

[Caged]

Assuming by that you mean taxation, how would you handle the projects that are too large for one person - street cleaning, police force etc. Would you rather those all moved to a pay for what you use approach? Or is it specifically the 'given to other people' in terms of welfare that you disagree with, rather than the provision of services?

It's a bit of a thread derail but I think we've exhausted 'I agree with this' vs. 'I don't agree with this'.

 

[Frightful Boar]

I don't attack your every post, I came close to agreeing with you earlier in the thread . The disagreement is how to get there.

I'm plainly guilty of hyperbole.

Assuming by that you mean taxation, how would you handle the projects that are too large for one person - street cleaning, police force etc. Would you rather those all moved to a pay for what you use approach? Or is it specifically the 'given to other people' in terms of welfare that you disagree with, rather than the provision of services?

And not making myself clear sometimes. I don't mean taxation, I mean welfare. And things like contraception, gastric bypasses, free abortions, foreign aid.

 

[elmarko]

You don't really care, you're just trying to catch me out with your cleverness.

That said, I don't like the parts where they take my money and give it to other people.

Now, there's no argument needed there, that's just how I feel. Let's see if you can accept that other people might not have the same opinions as you.

I don't accept opinions on matters in which a factual answer exists - I'll accept you have an opinion, but I don't respect or accept it with any value (if it isn't founded on reality).

Now, your favourite song I'm happy to take an opinion - but regarding complex human behaviour, motivation theory & the myriad of mitigating factors which can either impede or allow success? - not so much.

I don't care about any 'views' in total honesty (my own included), I just want to garner an actual understanding of the situation in which we live.

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to catch you out - just attempting to understand why exactly you think what you do - with the intention of challenging those specific elements (if they are fallacious/unsupported by evidence) with the hope of you actually considering a different point of view.

None of my views are fixed, I'm more than happy to change my mind on anything if presented with compelling arguments or sound data.

 

[Caged]

And not making myself clear sometimes. I don't mean taxation, I mean welfare. And things like contraception, gastric bypasses, free abortions, foreign aid.

Taxation is taking money and giving it to others in the form of services though, and a necessary part of any functional country. I'm guessing it comes down to whether you think the recipient is deserving vs. undeserving?

If you want people to be able to take control of their own situations then giving them control over whether they have a child or not is a fundamental part of that, I can't agree with you on your stance at all.

 

[Frightful Boar]

Taxation is taking money and giving it to others in the form of services though, and a necessary part of any functional country. I'm guessing it comes down to whether you think the recipient is deserving vs. undeserving?

If you want people to be able to take control of their own situations then giving them control over whether they have a child or not is a fundamental part of that, I can't agree with you on your stance at all.

I respect your opinion, not sure why you're ok paying for someone else to have sex though.

I'm at work now instead of with my family so that someone I'll never know can have carefree sex. Not cool.

 

[deuse]

I'm at work now instead of with my family so that someone I'll never know can have carefree sex. Not cool.

Get some work done then. Oh and people you know what happens when you feed a BOAR to much

 

[Caged]

I respect your opinion, not sure why you're ok paying for someone else to have sex though.

I'm at work now instead of with my family so that someone I'll never know can have carefree sex. Not cool.

I don't see it as paying for people to have sex any more than I see providing a TV for people in prison as rewarding them for committing crime.

It would cost a lot more for the state to bring up a child than the miniscule cost of preventing a child being born in the first place.

 

[Destination]

Those sort of people will never vote Tory anyway, so best to use them as scapegoats.

Precisely.

 

[Rroff]

Regardless of the merits or otherwise of this, like the recent proposed increase to minimum wage IMO they need to be deferred awhile longer at the very least - both have potential to impact the somewhat fragile economic recovery of this country (or maybe thats the intention).

 

[Caged]

I think the economy is recovering in spite of horrendous wage repression, not because of it.

 

[Allnamestaken]

That's because people are too spoiled. You definitely CAN live on £6.00 an hour. You might not have any luxuries but you'll be able to not starve to death and afford soap. I can't believe I'm having to say this to adults.

I dont know what world you live in mate, but I have lived on absolute minimum wage before on at 40 hours a week and my rent/ elec&water bills/council tax/ food was just over that.

I lived at the ABSOLUTE minimum it was not enough.

I do not understand why there are so many people these days who can so easily say that minimum wage is absolutely liveable. Individual peoples circumstances are different and you cannot make blanket assumptions like that. Not everyone is single without people to care for or disabled parents to look after.

Not only that but more often than not the people who make these silly misinformed comments are usually people who do not have the faintest idea of what it is to struggle to survive.

 

[~Divine~Wind~]

You seem to be one of these people (who are weirdly common online) who invent things that other people say.
I never once said it was easy.

Ok then, maybe I should have phrased it better sorry.
but the amount you've repeated yourself would imply thats it's fairly straightforwards to "create a job" and anyone can just do it at a whim *shrug*

You seem to have something against the welfare system as it stands, which was part of the problems we are discussing?

I respect your opinion, not sure why you're ok paying for someone else to have sex though.

I'm at work now instead of with my family so that someone I'll never know can have carefree sex. Not cool.

Paying for someone else to have sex

Shall we expect if you ever find yourself out of work, unable to "create a job", without savings then you won't fall back on the system you seem to take such offense to?

I'm all for making people work for their benefits and to pay them a respectable wage, I'm not however for a forced slave wage workforce where they just churn staff over again and again with a minimal amount actually getting to keep a job, as they've tried before.

 

[Hitman_Leon]

I'm not however for a forced slave wage workforce

I do think some would like this to happen, a return to the 19th century. Unions changed things for the better for a long time. They then became greedy and wielded too much power over the economy. This played into the hands of the leaders who had changed things for the better due to the rise of the unions. The unions are now neutered for the most part, the working class have lost their voice. Government steered by big business will implement whatever changes it sees fit regardless of fairness or practicality.

Common sense needs a chance, better wages, education and opportunity. People stuck in low paid work need hope and options, marginalising a group will not push them to do better. A lot do want better but the options are limited, taking away help when realistic options for those in question do not exist is victimisation. By all means the reliance on benefits needs to be reduced but the approach being taken is wrong.

 

[Sho]

Not only that but more often than not the people who make these silly misinformed comments are usually people who do not have the faintest idea of what it is to struggle to survive.

 

[kokuten]

i've not read the links, whats happening?

 

[Raikiri]

Do you think the guy who made millions from Costa thought "the world doesn't need another sub-par coffee shop, so I'll just whinge like a little girl about how unfair things are"?


Nope, he/she went out and created something. Unless you think that person is intrinsically better than you, you can do the same.

A company that was created by three people who most likely all owned their own homes (and therefor didn't have rent taking up 40-50% of their income).

Average salaries were around £2,000 a year in 1971, when Costa was founded with the average house selling for £5,632. The average house now costs 23x minimum wage and 10x average.

Hardly the same circumstances as those on minimum wage now.

 

[Frodo1805]

Frightful Boar sounds like the rich kid who got a handout and miss-interpreted it as his own work to me.

 

[regulus]

yeah theres no where you can live on £6.00 an hour south of newcastle, what if you live in london and thats where you have been your whole life, your community links family etc, you can no way afford to live there on £6p/h business should pay a living wage, nothing else, we shouldn't need the government to top up peoples wages. What with the tories causing a housing bubble and years of no meaningful house building people are being priced out of pretty much everywhere but the holes up north

Community links and family? I upped and left abroad when the first awesome opportunity came around. And EVERYONE I know and loves live in London. You can't sit in a pit of poverty and misery because your mates live down the road from you.

But I agree with you on the London housing bubble. It's almost scary to watch.

 

[regulus]

I dont know what world you live in mate, but I have lived on absolute minimum wage before on at 40 hours a week and my rent/ elec&water bills/council tax/ food was just over that.

I lived at the ABSOLUTE minimum it was not enough.

I do not understand why there are so many people these days who can so easily say that minimum wage is absolutely liveable. Individual peoples circumstances are different and you cannot make blanket assumptions like that. Not everyone is single without people to care for or disabled parents to look after.

Not only that but more often than not the people who make these silly misinformed comments are usually people who do not have the faintest idea of what it is to struggle to survive.

So no TV, Sky, supercharged PC or luxuries when you were on the minimum wage? When you say bare minimum that means BARE MINIMUM?

 

[regulus]

Must be nice to live in your world where life is so simple with absolutely no complications that might prevent someone from doing this.

May I just ask, what prevents you from earning more?

Why have I always been able to find better paying jobs than the previous one despite working in a field I'm not officially qualified to work in?